[Paul Carey]

 

I heard of a proposal today at a club to post the daily stimpmeter reading!  I have never heard of such an idea and it seems like a really bad idea to me.  It seems to be the epitome of members meddling in the superintendent's job.  Most players are incapable to putt any greens stimping in double figures anyway. 

Two questions:

Has anyone ever heard of this?

Does anyone see any value in it?

Thanks

[C. Squier]

I think it'll prove that you don't want anything to do w/ a 13.  It'll have the same result as posting the distance of their drives.....deflated egos because the number is lower than they thought.

CPS

[John Moore II]

I agree, I think posting numbers for Stimpmeter readings is very foolish. The only thing it will really show is that the members have no chance of putting greens that are running a 10 or above. I played a US Am qualifier and the greens were running 13, according to the USGA offical anyway. I can honestly say I had never putted on greens that fast and they were downright scary. And I consider myself a decent putter. Anyone not world class with the putter does not need fast greens like that. 8-9 ft at most, but if that number was posted, people would feel like 'girly men' for playing that course.

[Jim Johnson]

[Jason Connor]

I don't remember where I've seen it, but I've seen it.  Now it's bugging me that I can't remember where.

Also I wonder on a typical course how much variability there is from green to green.  Does anyone know?  Might it vary by 3 from the slowest to the fastest green within a course?

I agree on the ego bit.  What would make many clubs' members say "The green are rolling super fast today" might only be a 9.  Then they'd feel silly given the numbers they hear on TV.  Sometimes ignorance is better.  

The club I just joined is very quick (I saw a guys ball stop, then blow off the green into the water Saturday in strong winds) and I have wondered what the number is solely for my own reference when watching TV golf.  But I realize I may be disappointed if I hear it's an 8!

[Chuck Brown]

The inventor, Edward Stimpson, and the redesigner, Frank Thomas, both thought/think that it is a TERRIBLE idea to use Stimpmeters for any purpose other than what they were intended -- for superintendents to make green speeds consistent from one hole to the next.  The notion of them being used for bragging rights on speed, or for further mechanizing the game, is what they feared.

[John Moore II]

Agreed, it is very foolish for clubs to make the stimpmeter a bench mark for club toughness and difficulty. I personally like greens that are smooth moreso than super fast. Fast greens with footprints and spike marks all over are very very hard to putt. I would really like to see the average player try to putt on greens that roll 13-14 ft. They would 3 putt every hole, even if they were to hit every shot inside 10 feet.

[Paul Carey]

The inventor, Edward Stimpson, and the redesigner, Frank Thomas, both thought/think that it is a TERRIBLE idea to use Stimpmeters for any purpose other than what they were intended -- for superintendents to make green speeds consistent from one hole to the next.  The notion of them being used for bragging rights on speed, or for further mechanizing the game, is what they feared.

Do you know where I could get that quote/comment from the inventors?

Thanks

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ok... you post a Stimpmeter reading at 7am. Do you change the reading at 3pm, after the grass grows, golfers stomp over the putting surfaces, etc.? Because the same greens that measured 10 early in the morning are slower late in the afternoon.

An interesting dilemma 

[John Moore II]

Jeff-- Thats an interesting thought. Though I don't think you'd have to change anything. Or would the readings even have to be truthful? Cut the greens to normal height, have them run at 8-9 ft and post 12 on the board. Most members would have no clue how fast 12 ft really is.

[Paul Carey]

Jeff-- Thats an interesting thought. Though I don't think you'd have to change anything. Or would the readings even have to be truthful? Cut the greens to normal height, have them run at 8-9 ft and post 12 on the board. Most members would have no clue how fast 12 ft really is.

I think that is the best approach.  I bet Bushwood CC prominently posted the daily stimpmeter.   

[TEPaul]

A lot of clubs have posted stimpmeter readings. That kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Even Oakmont used to do it but they must have seen the uselessness of it because apparently they don't do it anymore. I think a lot of clubs have knowingly lied about their posted stimpmeter readings too which is even worse.

I believe a lot of clubs are beginning to see the futility of a stimpmeter reading race. I think some golf associations are beginning to too.  

[BVince]

Not to go against the grain, but I like it.  The only real problem that I would see is the expectaion from some (if not all) of the members to keep it as high as possible, thus creating a maintenance cycle that eventually damages the greens. 

[Joey Smith]

It's done at Hillwood Country Club in Nashville, TN. 

It is a very nice 50 year old parkland course with way too many trees.

Has hosted the Tennessee State Amateur - State Match Play - Mid Am & Senior Am.  Held the U.S. Sr. Open qualifier twice.

Not defending the practice though...I believe it's silly...

[Andrew Summerell]

Quite a few clubs in Australia, especially around Sydney, post Stimpmeter readings for all their weekly comps. The problem is, I believe any of them to be true. There seems to be a stigma with having green speeds under 10. I can putt on greens supposedly measured at 10 or 11, then head up to my home course (Newcastle GC) & putt on greens that are faster than the greens I putted on the day before, yet are only measured at 9.

Basically, I don’t think they are of any use except for superintendents & I don’t believe the readings need to be published. All most golfers need is to have the practice green the same pace as the greens on course.

[Randy Thompson]

I have seen the practice done frequently and have no problem with it. Just becasue the speed is posted doesn´t mean that they have to be in the 12 or 13 range. Posting doesn´t lead to fast greens. I personally dislike super fast greens and feel its on the verge of tricking up the course. But its nice to know what they are stempping but I can usually tell you what they are after a couple of putts. Good greens management in my opinion is first, Trueness and second,  when you can keep the speed consistent from green to green, no easy task beleive me! I don´t find it at all foolish, I beleive the clubs do it because everybody asks, it probably the second most asked question in the pro shop, the first being, Where is the first tee? For those of you find this a foolish practice then you need to accept that most golfers are foolish, because there the one´s always asking!

[Doug Ralston]

I remember once going to Cumberland Trail, in Columbus, Ohio. They made brag that their greens were the fastest around, and said that day they stimped 12 - 12.5. I do not know how true it was, but I hit an 8ft uphill putt like a 3 inch tap and it zoomed into the hole. Almost every other hole was 3+ putts. I admit I am not prepared to handle greens like that.

As the commercial says: Zoom Zoom Zoom!

Doug

[John Moore II]

Doug--you are correct, very fast greens like that are really hard to putt, even for the best players. At least you understand you can't play them. Most people don't realize that.

[Mark Chaplin]

Hunstanton used to post the stimp reading in the clubhouse daily, 6 or 7 years ago I played a major event there, on practise they were listed as 10.5 and during the comp 11, easily the quickest greens I had played in the UK although no 3 putts in 36 holes!!

I believe my club is using the 3 measures this season of speed, firmness (the thumper) and trueness of the greens. Used together they should give a better overall judgement of the quality of the putting surface.

[Doug Ralston]

Doug--you are correct, very fast greens like that are really hard to putt, even for the best players. At least you understand you can't play them. Most people don't realize that.

Hehe, that is for certain.

You know, the funny thing is, after one putt went way by, I left my putts short the rest of the day. Never could convince my body to hit it crisply again, for fear of another 12ft return try. Missed many 3-5 footers. Needed to practice putting on a pool table or something.

Doug

[Steve Okula]

A couple of months ago, my members asked me to start posting stimp readings on a weekly basis, I take them on Friday and put Friday's result up for the weekend, they usually don't change a lot.  So far it hasn't caused me any problems, but I always understate the average speed by about six inches, going with the slowest green.

It's plain stupid to overstate the speed, because one day some one is not going to believe you and demand to see it, and you're going to look a world-class ass, and your credibility will be gone forever and always. It would be like getting caught cheating at golf - no one will ever want to play with you again.

Also, contrary to past conventional knowledge, with the new growth regulators, greens do not necessarily slow down as the day goes on. My greens regularly stimp their fastest from 1-3 PM, anywhere from 2"-8" faster than right after the morning mow. I think it's because the surface has dried and there's less moisture to stick to the ball, and the growth regulators have all but stopped the blade elongation.

[John Kirk]

From my perspective, people tend to underestimate the Stimpmeter reading.  I think we've all become accustomed to faster green speeds over the years, due to improved greens keeping techniques and better grasses.  To me, 10 feet feels about medium, 11 feet feels fast, and 12 feet is very fast.

We have a contingent of members who whine constantly about the superintendent.  On days when they gripe, "The greens are about 6, or something like that", usually that means they're rolling around 9.  They don't know how good they've got it.

[Matthew Hunt]

What about clubs that can go over 15 but choose to stimp at 9?

[Peter Nomm]

I have resisted the requests at our club over the years for a couple of reasons.

1 - If the greens are quick anyway, no one cares to know.  It is only when they appear slow do people want to complain about it.

2 - I have personally measured the greens hundreds of times and yet to find consistency like most people think.  The stimpmeter is a good tool but certainly not an exact science.

3 - I'm a pro but I doubt I could accurately tell the difference between an 11 and 11'6".   We know if they are fast, and we know if they are slow.  Posting a reading is merely for show.

[Sam Morrow]

Woodforest in Houston always had the stimpmeter reading posted (of course they never change the sign from 11) and whenever I speak to one of the people in the shop they comment that they have the best greens in town and all you need to do is look at the stimpeter reading. Of course this is the same shop attendent that asked me where Southern Hills is.

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