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Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Have recent events changed anything?
« on: March 08, 2008, 04:31:16 AM »
Would you still feel as comfortable lining up this shot?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 05:13:57 AM »
Drive don't damage cow,
Cow damage drive.
Panel work and a new windscreen,
Should have taken a cart!

-- Tipper

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 06:13:47 AM »

Now if it was a sheep, then I would have no problem.

Apart from that cart in the background, has anyone got a
Stinger Missile in their bag? ::)


Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 09:37:20 AM »
As a 20-year resident of Wisconsin -- No.




Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 10:00:36 AM »
Would you still feel as comfortable lining up this shot?


No less comfortable than I would have last year.

1) the liklihood of killing a cow with a golf ball is very low
2) cows aren't protected by international treaties
3) there's no active group of paochers and smugglers trading in cow parts
4) as a consequence there are no large criminal penalties for killing a cow

On the other hand, cows are someone's private property. So killing one does carry a responsiblity to repay the owner for the loss.

This civil action has always been a good enough reason not to act negligently in a way that results in killing a cow. That animal in the picture most likely is there under a long-standing grazing right, so no one could claim it was some place it shouldn't be.

I used to work with some folks who spent a lot of time doing very dangerous undercover work in an attempt to curtail the trade of illegally taken raptor parts. People like that aren't above killing a law enforcement officer to protect their business. The laws and penalties are intended to stop that trade.

Isenhour is unlikely to be sentenced to the maximum penalties. But hitting several golf balls at a protected bird from 75 yards, ultimately killing it, would seem to call for some kind of penalty.

Ken
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Kyle Harris

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 10:03:19 AM »
I hope you all take a little more caution when maintenance workers are out working while you play.

Please make sure they're paying attention before you hit.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 10:05:10 AM »
If a cow is someone's private property, then wouldn't it be incumbent upon the owner to keep his cow off a golf course?  Unless, of course, the owner was also the owner of the golf course in which case it would seem he should be pretty clear of the possible dangers of allowing his livestock to roam freely on the property.

As long as the animal wasn't maliciously targeted, would reparations really be in order in this scenario?

Kyle Harris

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 10:09:25 AM »
If a cow is someone's private property, then wouldn't it be incumbent upon the owner to keep his cow off a golf course?  Unless, of course, the owner was also the owner of the golf course in which case it would seem he should be pretty clear of the possible dangers of allowing his livestock to roam freely on the property.

As long as the animal wasn't maliciously targeted, would reparations really be in order in this scenario?

Do you park in a lot next to a hole at a golf course and not expect the golfer to pay for any damages inflicted by his accidental errant play?

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 10:15:02 AM »
I have never parked my car on a fairway nor do I set my kids free to run around by themselves on a golf course since I understand the inherent hazards.

I would have a different opinion if this were a wild cow that were responsible for its own actions that it couldn't understand.  The premise was stated that this was someone's private property.  Why would you have your valuables roaming around on a golf course?

I really hope as a golf course superintendent you don't drive your car up to the side of a green while inspecting doing some work and expect that it is a golfers responsibility to play the course without hitting your car.


Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 10:29:37 AM »
If a cow is someone's private property, then wouldn't it be incumbent upon the owner to keep his cow off a golf course?

Given that the photo appears to have been taken on linksland, I'd guess that there's traditional grazing right that belongs to the cow's owner.

That's certainly the case on courses like Brora.

Ken
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 10:30:59 AM »
I have never parked my car on a fairway nor do I set my kids free to run around by themselves on a golf course since I understand the inherent hazards.

I would have a different opinion if this were a wild cow that were responsible for its own actions that it couldn't understand.  The premise was stated that this was someone's private property.  Why would you have your valuables roaming around on a golf course?

I really hope as a golf course superintendent you don't drive your car up to the side of a green while inspecting doing some work and expect that it is a golfers responsibility to play the course without hitting your car.



Tim, courses such as Royal North Devon and Pennard are built on common land.  As such they share the land with other local tenants.  At RND they are horses and sheep.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2008, 02:08:57 PM »
I have never parked my car on a fairway nor do I set my kids free to run around by themselves on a golf course since I understand the inherent hazards.

I would have a different opinion if this were a wild cow that were responsible for its own actions that it couldn't understand.  The premise was stated that this was someone's private property.  Why would you have your valuables roaming around on a golf course?

I really hope as a golf course superintendent you don't drive your car up to the side of a green while inspecting doing some work and expect that it is a golfers responsibility to play the course without hitting your car.



Tim, courses such as Royal North Devon and Pennard are built on common land.  As such they share the land with other local tenants.  At RND they are horses and sheep.

Tommy

Pennard is private property owned by the club.  There are about 6 properties near the course which have grazing rights so long as the animals grazing belong to an owner of one the grazing rights properties.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 01:06:40 PM »
Ah yes,,, the old Danebrog Country Club, Danebrog Nebraska.   
w/sand greens and cattle roaming the FWs  
Gentlemen of the British Isles... the sand green in this particular photo is within the corregated metal enclosure.  Can you top that?  ::) :o ;) ;D
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 01:08:16 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 01:16:44 PM »
We need a thread about which courses have the best tasting critters wandering around on it...or maybe that's what this thread is!

RJ, is there a way to know if a cow will be USDA Prime while it still is walking on the course?

Joe

(I'm not hungry, I just polished off a big bowl of home made beef and barley soup. Yum....)

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 01:20:52 PM »
Quote
...is there a way to know if a cow will be USDA Prime while it still is walking on the course?


Joe, I think it has something to do with the straightness of the line along the back and neck, and the girth...  ::) ;) ;D

How tasty are the critters down there at Wolf's Point?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 01:21:48 PM »
Dick,

Two questions,

Why were you taking a cart?!

What is your cap doing on the ground?


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2008, 01:23:44 PM »

Even the greens are now up in arms against the ubiquitous
buggy/cart and are hiding behind walls for protection.

PS Leave the cow alone it’s sacred in India and therefore
     cannot be classified as a hazard.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2008, 01:27:27 PM »
Jason, simple... I was in the cart because I drove up unannounced, without any "reciprocal" club playing priveleges pre-arranged  ;) , and found the course owners, maintenance staff and cattle ranchers, Bob and Ethyl Krueger were out on the property pitchforking up cow pies in the FWs.  They were out in the cart with one set of clubs, batting it around a bit.  They came out to greet me and said, Jump in!  ;D

And, if you can't figure out why my cap is on the ground, after seeing my swing, and knowing the wind of the prairie... well you must not have a very good imagination!  ::) ;D ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Doug Ralston

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2008, 01:29:51 PM »
Once at Lassing Point my playing partner, aiming down the left side, hit a low liner too far left into a field with a horse, who was turned away grazing. The ball made a beeline and ..................... Well, I suppose you had to be there. An unforgettable moment!  :D

Doug

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2008, 01:31:51 PM »
Did he stick it?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Doug Ralston

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2008, 03:19:40 PM »
Did he stick it?

Nah-h-h. I have to tell the truth. The ball hit a tree limb just short of the horse's rear. But that is not why it is so memorable.

Joe is obsessively fearful of hitting housing, or anything inappropriate. I have seen him play insane clubs, accept impossible shots, to avoid even the possibility.

I swear to you, if Joe had made that horse scurry, he would have climbed over there and spent 30 minutes apologizing to it!  :D

I wish I had film.

Doug

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2008, 06:02:31 PM »
Two things about cows on your course...first, when attempting to shoo them off of a green, never startle them as those 1000+ monsters can leave some nice gouges, best approach is to just walk up slow and slooooowly move them on...second, if you do hit one with your ball and if it appears to be injured in any way, simply put it out of it's misery and call the maintenance staff. They'll take it from there.

Scott Whitley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2008, 09:49:32 PM »
Have had the unique experience of playing shots over and around cows at Narin & Portnoo in Co. Donegal, though those days are now past.  As mentioned above, have encountered farm animals on Pennard (and also Southerndown) but those were mostly sheep, with a few horses on Pennard.  Finally, the hares on Royal Dublin are big enough to be sheep!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have recent events changed anything?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2008, 09:51:49 PM »
I'm compiling a list of courses to play with my golf partner, Mike the Butcher......

Never mind us, we always take a cart to haul our refrigerated, over sized golf bags....... ;D
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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