[Patrick_Mucci]

Also, it's interesting to note that the "top ten" of any system gets pretty entrenched.  I think it's a function of giving everybody a max of ten votes for the top ten (which score a full point higher than the second ten), combined with the peer pressure of knowing last year's results.

Tom Doak, I've maintained that prior knowledge biases the result and that few raters would "go against the tide" in their evaluation,  thus perpetuating the ranking.

I've also wondered how much regionalism is filtered out of the process.

I know most take exception to where some courses sit in the rankings, myself included.

I'm mystified by how some courses are ranked so high, when others that I think are more worthy, aren't included in the rankings.  I try to take an arms length position, but, the ranking of certain courses continues to mystify me.

On the other hand, there are those who buy into the "horses for courses" concept, so perhaps those courses I take exception to just aren't for me.

I'm aware that a fixed number of minimum rounds are required in order for a course to be rated, but, it seems likely that the natural process is going to produce courses rated by locals when those courses are private, not resort or public courses.

[JR Potts]

Butler National #74   

I clearly don't know my golf.

[John Kirk]

Ryan and others,

I've seen a few comments along the lines of "I'm surprised such-and-such course is rated so low.  In general, my first reaction is "How would you know?  How many of these have you played?"

I counted, and I've played 18 of these courses.  I have no idea where Butler National belongs, but I have at least of understanding where Hidden Creek deserves to be.  Also, remember, as Tom D. says, that newer courses tend to start high and drift down.  For Butler National, an older, well established course to sit at #74 is quite an accomplishment.

I love the modern 100 list.

[Jim Nugent]

What do you guys think of Muirfield Village?  Golfweek ranks it top 10 modern.  I often see it top 20 or 25 U.S. overall.  Does that seem right?

[Cory Brown]

I believe it is actually a good thing that the top courses get entrenched a little bit.  It prevents great courses that opened 10-20 years ago from being bumped off the list by the latest and greatest each year.

[Jason Connor]

Jason Connor,
Caledonia at No. 100 is a Strantz course.

I know, it was my first. My reaction was to reading the Top 50 and seeing only Monterrey.

[rchesnut]

Fun list.  Thoughts on courses I've played in the last year --

No love for the Dakotas here.  Sutton Bay (#17 to #43), Links at ND (67 to 79), and Hawktree (56 to 89!).  Sutton Bay was overrated at 17, but the other two courses have to suffer from being public tracks in remote areas, they deserve better.

Ballyneal from 43 and 13...and still underrated.

Sanctuary from 41 to 51...and still overrated.

Shadow Creek (from 8 to 9) on its way out of the top 10. 

Mayacama at 35...a Top 5 facility and a course that shouldn't make the top 100. 

[John Kirk]

Interesting.  I'd like to ask you more about Mayacama.  I'm going there with some friends, probably in October.

Agree on Ballyneal.

Wasn't there a recent thread that said Shadow Creek is in poor shape, and may go offline for a while to be refurbished?  I'd be surprised if Shadow Creek is actually better than the Madison Club in La Quinta, which is spectacularly decadent: big, wide, fancy, and fun (I toured it, didn't play it, friends of mine have).  Does Shadow Creek have a driveable par four?  The Madison Club (not in the top 100) doesn't, unless you move up one or two tees more than you would.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Anyone care to do a breakdown by architect?  I'd love to see the actual number of Fazio's on here.

Ross 26
Fazio (2 classic, 18 modern) 20
Tillinghast 15
Raynor 13
Pete Dye 11
Flynn 10
RTJ Sr. (5 classic, 4 modern) 9
Nicklaus 9
Core 8
Crenshaw 8
Macdonald 7
Rees Jones (3 classic 4 Modern) 7
Toomey 6
Weiskopf 6
Doak (1 Classic, 4 Modern) 5
MacKenzie 5
Maxwell5
George Fazio (2 classic 2 modern) 4
Travis 4
Morrish 4
Engh 3
Bell 3
Thomas 3
Watson (Willie) 3
Cold (2 classic, 1 modern) 3
Cupp 3
RTJ Jr. 3

[Cory Lewis]

Just saw the classic list, congratulations to Old Town Club!!!

[Chip Gaskins]

Mayacama at 35...a Top 5 facility and a course that shouldn't make the top 100. 

wow, i love mayacama, i have played it numerous times.  i usually don't like nicklaus courses, but i thought he did a really good job at mayacama

[Anthony_Nysse]

Wheres the Classical list?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonialf

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

It's in the magazine.  Not that many big changes and I've done my part typing in the Modern list.  Someone else needs to handle Classic...

[John Kavanaugh]

It's in the magazine.  Not that many big changes and I've done my part typing in the Modern list.  Someone else needs to handle Classic...

I went to the bookstore, airport and newstands and it was sold out.  Theses rankings issues really do push sales!

[Tom Huckaby]

It's in the magazine.  Not that many big changes and I've done my part typing in the Modern list.  Someone else needs to handle Classic...

Mike:  I don't get the magazine and it's actually pretty hard to find at any time... so until they put this on-line, can you just answer my question re MPCC?  That is, does MPCC Dunes make the Classic list?

I could see it going either way... it's just an interesting illustration (I think), as MPCC Shore places so highly on modern list, and is at best the equal of the Dunes (in no way can I call it superior, that is).

TH

LATE EDIT - NO NEED - A. NYSSE JUST POSTED THE WHOLE CLASSICAL LIST.

[Trey Kemp]

What about Whispering Pines in Texas?  It has been ranked #1 in Texas for the past 3 years on the Dallas Morning News list ahead of Dallas National, Briggs Ranch, Colonial, etc...   I have never played it, just thought it was interesting that is was not on the Golfweek list.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

That's why they do it.  I've heard it the biggest selling issue at Golf Digest and GOLF Magazines...

[Don_Mahaffey]

Hey Doak wasn't even born before the classic/modern cutoff...was he?
How he'd get on the classic list?
Yes, a rhetorical question as I know he got on the list because he renovated a classic course, but come on, you can be a classic architect, but have never lived during the classic period?  

I’m picking on Tom because I know he can take it as I can see others listed as classic architects who also did their work in the modern period. Just seems strange to me…never mind, just random musings on a nasty weather day here in S TX.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

It's in the magazine.  Not that many big changes and I've done my part typing in the Modern list.  Someone else needs to handle Classic...

Mike:  I don't get the magazine and it's actually pretty hard to find at any time... so until they put this on-line, can you just answer my question re MPCC?  That is, does MPCC Dunes make the Classic list?

I could see it going either way... it's just an interesting illustration (I think), as MPCC Shore places so highly on modern list, and is at best the equal of the Dunes (in no way can I call it superior, that is).

TH

The only Calif. courses I see are:

41. Valley Cub at Montecito
31. Pasatiempo
24. Riviera
18. LACC (North)
13. SFGC
4. Pebble Beach
1. Cyrpess Point

[Tom Huckaby]

It's in the magazine.  Not that many big changes and I've done my part typing in the Modern list.  Someone else needs to handle Classic...

Mike:  I don't get the magazine and it's actually pretty hard to find at any time... so until they put this on-line, can you just answer my question re MPCC?  That is, does MPCC Dunes make the Classic list?

I could see it going either way... it's just an interesting illustration (I think), as MPCC Shore places so highly on modern list, and is at best the equal of the Dunes (in no way can I call it superior, that is).

TH

The only Calif. courses I see are:

41. Valley Cub at Montecito
31. Pasatiempo
24. Riviera
18. LACC (North)
13. SFGC
4. Pebble Beach
1. Cyrpess Point

Thanks!  The whole list was just posted.  My questions/comments re MPCC are on there.  It's quite curious... to me anyway.

[Doug Ralston]

I see Valhalla still in the Top 100. Oddly, many in Kentucky only rank it 3-4 in the state. But all the other 3 [Olde Stone, Persimmon Ridge, and Champion Trace], are Art Hills, so ..................

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

I see Valhalla still in the Top 100. Oddly, many in Kentucky only rank it 3-4 in the state. But all the other 3 [Olde Stone, Persimmon Ridge, and Champion Trace], are Art Hills, so ..................

Doug

Doug,

Quit asking your clients about architecture.  Kentucky loves Valhalla.

[Doug Ralston]

John; 

Yes they do. Just love those ole Hills courses too. You might do well to have a look at Olde Stone yourself, John. Of course, they would never allow me up the driveway, but word coming out from 'lesser' sites say this one is real good.

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

John; 

Yes they do. Just love those ole Hills courses too. You might do well to have a look at Olde Stone yourself, John. Of course, they would never allow me up the driveway, but word coming out from 'lesser' sites say this one is real good.

Doug

I of course have a good friend that is a member of Olde Stone, like where don't I, and even he knows that Valhalla is the superior course.  I will say that by all reports the conditioning at Olde Stone has been nothing but first rate since day one.

[Doug Ralston]

What? A friend? Now I know you are pulling my leg. 

Doug

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