[Evan Fleisher]

Doing some "pre-scouting" work...

Taking the "fam" down to Sanibel Island for a week's vacation in early June.  Whilst the little buggers are playing in the sand with Mom, I intend to sneak away a couple of times to do my thing.

Any ideas and/or suggestions of places to play within reasonable driving distance?

[CJ Carder]

Most of your options will probably be in the Bonita Springs / Naples area.  I've only played Raptor Bay and Tiburon's Gold Course (site of the Merrill Lynch Shark Shootout or whatever it's called).  As I recall, I enjoyed playing both, though I can't speak much for the architecture. 

If you want to drive a little ways, you could check out the Lely courses in Marco Island.  Also, my page-a-day golf calendar on my desk has a nice picture of Mediterra Golf Club in Naples.  I don't know if it's private (probably is) but it still looks decent.

[Bill_McBride]

I played the nine holer at South Seas Island Resort on Captiva years ago, pretty fun with one memorable hole, a 95 yard pitch shot par 3 over the yacht harbor.

Even more fun was hanging out in the bait shop / bar at the yacht harbor itself!

[Jason Topp]

I enjoyed Verandah which may have gone private.

Fiddlesticks Long Mean is private but I really like it.

The Fort Myers municipal course is a Ross.

[Evan Fleisher]

I enjoyed Verandah which may have gone private.

Fiddlesticks Long Mean is private but I really like it.

The Fort Myers municipal course is a Ross.

Wasn't there some restoration work done at Fort Myers in recent years?  Anyone remember that discussion here, or am I dreaming?

[Bryan Izatt]

It'll take you a bit of time to just get off Sanibel and through Ft Myers. 

Relatively close are Pelican Preserve, Miromar Lakes, and Grandezza, all residential courses, but of decent quality and varying degrees of difficulty.  Shouldn't be too much trouble to get on at that time of year and the price should be right.

I wouldn't bother with Tiburon.  Expensive and uninspired.

To the north up by Port charlotte I liked Venetian Golf and River Club.  Architecturally interesting with one of the better biarritz's I've seen.

Just east of Ft Myers is the new Old Corkscrew by Nicklaus.  Interesting layout and no houses.  There was a thread here a couple of months ago about it.

Raptor Bay, a little to the south, has a different look and feel to it, with no internal bunkering at all, and lots of push-up greens.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Evan what's your price range? I'm down in Naples and haven't played too much up in the Ft. Myers and Sanibel area but have heard enough. Fiddlesticks is supposed to be the best up there but is private and the Sanctuary on Sanibel is also supposed to be good but private. I enjoyed playing Raptor Bay last year and the course kept me interested as it was a little more generous than most FL courses off the tee iirc. I think they have 36 holes too and it's probably about $200. I've heard mixed reviews about Old Corkscrew.

Anyway let us know a little more about what you're looking for.
 

[Lester George]

Shell Point right across the causeway is a newer course that has some interesting holes and is usually not too crowded.

Lester

[Andy Silis]

Evan!

I go with the family there every year in June.

What dates are you there?

I'll be there from June 7-14. 

Send me a PM.

I'll second Lester's reccomendation on Shell Point.

Closest course to Sanibel Island that's not on the island. Second stoplight ( if I recall correctly ) after you come off the bridge heading towards Ft. Myers. Go left and you can't miss the signs. ( there is a big Shell Point sign on the left as you get to the stoplight )

I also go out in the afternoons to Beachview Golf Club ( it's right down the street from the condo we rent ). Decent traditional FL track with a couple of interesting holes. Hardly anyone out there at that time of year and I get around in 2 1/2 hrs.

Andy Silis

[Evan Fleisher]

Andy,

We'll be there the same week (June 9-15)!  I will IM you soon...would like to chat about lodging options, golf, etc.


Patrick,

Price and access are not much issue/concern for me.  Here is a list of "potentials" for me...can you (and/or others) select their top 2 or 3 from this list?

Crown Colony G&CC
Renaissance
Verandah GC - Old Orange Course
Verandah GC - Whispering Oaks Course
Fiddlesticks Country Club, Long Mean
Grandezza CC
Miromar Lakes Beach and GC - Signature Course
Old Corkscrew GC
West Bay Club

I will probably throw Ft. Myers CC in the mix as well as I'd like to see that particular Ross course...I intend to play a total of three rounds maximum.

Thanks to everyone so far for their feedback!

[Peter Nomm]

My buddy is the pro at that little 9-hole executive course - I think it is called Beachview.  From what I hear it is a pretty neat short course and is in great shape.

[Evan Fleisher]

My buddy is the pro at that little 9-hole executive course - I think it is called Beachview.  From what I hear it is a pretty neat short course and is in great shape.

Might be fun for an afternoon "quickie" round! 

[John Kavanaugh]

Price and access are not much issue/concern for me.  Here is a list of "potentials" for me...can you (and/or others) select their top 2 or 3 from this list?

Crown Colony G&CC
Renaissance
Verandah GC - Old Orange Course
Verandah GC - Whispering Oaks Course
Fiddlesticks Country Club, Long Mean
Grandezza CC
Miromar Lakes Beach and GC - Signature Course
Old Corkscrew GC
West Bay Club

I will probably throw Ft. Myers CC in the mix as well as I'd like to see that particular Ross course...I intend to play a total of three rounds maximum.

Thanks to everyone so far for their feedback!

Someone will have to explain to me how this is good for golf and not just good for Evan.  Raters should not be allowed to use their powers to just fill time on family or business trips.  I sincerely doubt that golf courses in the Naples area are in need of another set of eyes.  I feel sorry for the pro's and staff of these fine clubs who are forced to suffer through his visit on what must be a busy time of year.  I do love Evan's honesty though in stating that price and access do not matter then providing us with the list of nominated courses...I thank him for that.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Price and access are not much issue/concern for me.  Here is a list of "potentials" for me...can you (and/or others) select their top 2 or 3 from this list?

Crown Colony G&CC
Renaissance
Verandah GC - Old Orange Course
Verandah GC - Whispering Oaks Course
Fiddlesticks Country Club, Long Mean
Grandezza CC
Miromar Lakes Beach and GC - Signature Course
Old Corkscrew GC
West Bay Club

I will probably throw Ft. Myers CC in the mix as well as I'd like to see that particular Ross course...I intend to play a total of three rounds maximum.

Thanks to everyone so far for their feedback!

Someone will have to explain to me how this is good for golf and not just good for Evan.  Raters should not be allowed to use their powers to just fill time on family or business trips.  I sincerely doubt that golf courses in the Naples area are in need of another set of eyes.  I feel sorry for the pro's and staff of these fine clubs who are forced to suffer through his visit on what must be a busy time of year.  I do love Evan's honesty though in stating that price and access do not matter then providing us with the list of nominated courses...I thank him for that.

Busy? Ha! Hardly in June in south FL John. Ft. Myers/Sanibel might be a little busier than Naples but I am sure it's pretty similar in that everything slows down and some even shut down by the 2nd week of June. Most of the courses in Naples go to reciprocal play and get 1/10 the play they get in season (Jan-April) as 70% of the members are at home... up north! Not to many people like 90 degrees and 95% humidity so I am sure that Evan's visit will not be a hassle and the bored pro-shop will probably enjoy talking to him instead of the 10 regulars out on the course that they'll see all summer.


Now in terms of the options above Evan, Fiddlesticks should be your first choice (always hear its the best in Ft. Myers) and West Bay should be your last (Possibly the my least favorite I've played down here they just completed to monstrosities of condo towers right on the 18th hole) I have heard good things about Renaissance and  mixed reviews on Old Corkscrew. (Most complaints were that it is really tough.) The others I have not heard much about so I can't rank them, Verandah I want to say is supposed to be good and was purchased by the Bonita Bay Group IIRC and they own most of the high-end residential courses which are good. If you were willing to drive 30-45 min you and it is still open when you are here (Mid to late June is usually when they close) Calusa Pines is the best in SWFL. Mediterra South is also a good one if you were willing to make the 30 min drive down I-75.

[Andy Silis]

John!

Although I enjoy your contributions to this website ( even though I may disagree at times ) in this case you are WAY OUT OF LINE!!!!!!!

I realize that Evansville is hardly a sophisticated metropolis ( I've been there ) but it truly boggles my mind that you would think that June in Florida is a "busy season' for golf clubs.

I've known Evan through this golf site and he truly has a passion for golf course architecture. To belittle him in your post and infer that he is just using his GW rater status to access golf for purely personal vacation reasons is the furthest thing from the truth. What gives you the right to judge someone and make a blanket statement like that without knowing the person or any facts?

I would think that the golf clubs in the area would welcome someone who is a Midwest rater with maybe a different perspective than the ones who are local.

I would suggest you apologize to Evan both here on the site as well as in a PM.

Everyone has occasionally shot from the hip and in looking back wished that they had not done so.

You need to do the right thing here, or I for one, will have lost all respect for you as a contributor and a person!


Andy Silis

[John Kavanaugh]

A,

I think raters should choose where they want to play golf first and then plan vacations around that..not go visit relatives, peruse the nominated list and then cherry pick the best courses.  A raters card is not a national membership to 1700 courses.  I stand by my statement.

I like Evan and I commended him for stating that price and access have no bearing on his choices.  I even learned that pro's Maytag mentality need people to talk to in the off season.  I am glad he can provide that service.  I just do not see how this is good for golf.

My ideal would be for a rater to find courses in need of review and then drag his family along for the ride.  How about a trip to Sutton Bay or any of the other great new courses on the horizon?  Isn't that really the point and not just going out for a free ride on courses tired and true in their postition.

[John Kavanaugh]

A, please read!!!!



The exclamation mark is used to express exasperation,astonishment or surprise or to emphasise a comment or short, sharp phrase.

For example:

1. Help! Help!
2. That's unbelievable!
3. Get out!
4. Look out!

You can also use it to mark a phrase as humourous, ironic or sarcastic.

1. What a lovely day! (when it obviously is not a lovely day)
2. That was clever! (when someone has done something stupid) Some general remarks:
1. Don't overuse the exclamation mark
2. Don't include a series of exclamation marks.
e.g. I'll never get it right!!!!

[Andy Silis]

John!

Sounds like we agree to disagree in this case!

You do make some valid points overall and I agree with you that attaining Rater status shouldn't be a ticket to free golf.

The reality is that with families involved in vacations ( who probably would be bored at Suttons Bay ) you sometimes don't have a choice as to location. I don't think a rater should be precluded from wanting to visit and rate courses just because they may not be his/her first choice in that arena.

I guess I took your " commended" remarks as being scarcastic and tongue in cheek!

If that was not your intent, ( and you said you like and know Evan ) then I can now respect your opinions in the post a lot more even though I happen to disagree with them.

I'll confess to 'firing from the hip" myself in defense of a friend and if I did so through mistaken interpretation then I will be the first to apologize for the "overly intense" tone of my remarks.


Andy Silis

[Evan Fleisher]

A,

I think raters should choose where they want to play golf first and then plan vacations around that..not go visit relatives, peruse the nominated list and then cherry pick the best courses.  A raters card is not a national membership to 1700 courses.  I stand by my statement.

I like Evan and I commended him for stating that price and access have no bearing on his choices.  I even learned that pro's Maytag mentality need people to talk to in the off season.  I am glad he can provide that service.  I just do not see how this is good for golf.

My ideal would be for a rater to find courses in need of review and then drag his family along for the ride.  How about a trip to Sutton Bay or any of the other great new courses on the horizon?  Isn't that really the point and not just going out for a free ride on courses tired and true in their postition.

Thanks for the support John.  

I usually do not respond to these types of comments, but this time I think I will.

I consider my position at GW both an honor and a privilege...one that I take very seriously.  It just so happens that this will more than likely be my one and only vacation this year with my family (I have work commitments that will require me to spend a considerable amount of time away from home in 2008)...and since both my sibs live in Florida, and they are of lesser means to travel than we are we choose to vacation close to extended family so that everyone can be together.

This year we chose Sanibel Island as a place to meet, and since I'll be in the area, and since I'm a rater, and since it will be low season...what is the harm in asking around for nice places to play?  I happen to love golf, course architecture, and visiting new and interesting courses.  I suppose I could simply pull up local area courses on a map, point to one, and make a tee time...but I'd rather play someplace that has more interest, history, whatever that is worthwhile to see.

What is the harm in that?  Am I access hunitng?...no...I am fortunate enough to be able to get to play at many places others don't...again I consider that a privilege and am always appreciative of being given those opportunities.  Do I cherry pick?...no...my FIRST choice is to always play someplace we consider a "priority" course to ensure those places get the requisite number of ratings to be considered for our Top 100 lists.  Again...if I happen to be in that area...what is the harm searching these places out?

John...I'm sorry you feel this way about how I'm trying to gain knowledge about courses in an area that I don't frequent and have little background in.  Folks here are well traveled and knowledgeable and I've always trusted their judgement in helping find courses to play.

If you'd like to discuss this further, please IM or Email me...I'd even make sure you get my phone number to discuss "live" if you'd like.

[Andy Silis]

John

Sorry if my e-mail punctuation etiquette is not up to snuff. ( I've always used exclamation marks like that-----------------------it's kind of my "signature" from those who know me and deal with me via e-mail on a regular basis )

Thanks for showing me detail on what I'm assuming might be mainstream etiquette.

It has been duly noted.

Andy

[John Kavanaugh]

Evan,

Good luck on your work commitments away from home in 2008.  I will give you a word of advice as an employer myself.  Hide your clubs and rater tag as bosses do not like the thought of subordinates turning work into glorified golf trips at places they themselves can not access.  I once made a mistake of buying a car my boss had always wanted but did not feel he could afford.  I did not work there much longer.

I have always gotten a kick out of the thought of Willy Lowman being a Golfweek rater finding solice on his lone walks along the great courses of our country.  I often wonder how that privilage could have changed his and his families life.  I look forward to reading your reports.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

A,

I think raters should choose where they want to play golf first and then plan vacations around that..not go visit relatives, peruse the nominated list and then cherry pick the best courses.  A raters card is not a national membership to 1700 courses.  I stand by my statement.

I like Evan and I commended him for stating that price and access have no bearing on his choices.  I even learned that pro's Maytag mentality need people to talk to in the off season.  I am glad he can provide that service.  I just do not see how this is good for golf.

My ideal would be for a rater to find courses in need of review and then drag his family along for the ride.  How about a trip to Sutton Bay or any of the other great new courses on the horizon?  Isn't that really the point and not just going out for a free ride on courses tired and true in their postition.

John-

Why is Evan playing SWFL courses in the slow season bad for golf? Why should anyone have to drag his family anywhere?

[John Kavanaugh]

Patrick,

You are right.  A privilege should never require sacrifice or it may become a religion.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Patrick,

You are right.  A privilege should never require sacrifice or it may become a religion.

Right John because using the privilege without sacrificing his family's enjoyment is just pure abuse of it and doesn't do anyone or golf itself any good.

None of those courses Evan listed, to my knowledge, are on either of GW's list and would probably be happy to have a rater there during the slow season and have a chance to make a good impression.

Evan would love to hear a report come June on where you end up playing and what you thought. I will try and get some info on the other courses you mentioned.

[John Kavanaugh]

Patrick,

You are right.  A privilege should never require sacrifice or it may become a religion.

None of those courses Evan listed, to my knowledge, are on either of GW's list and would probably be happy to have a rater there during the slow season and have a chance to make a good impression.

I'm not talking about the public list, I'm referencing the 1700 strong list of nominated courses that every Golfweek rater has at his disposal.  The very fact that this 1700 course list is kept secret and is not trimmed down speaks loudly to the lack of credibility Golfweek holds thoughout the industry.  To continue to send raters to courses that will never make even the least of best is like sending a fat girl candy anonymously and then taking the caramels yourself. 

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