[David Stamm]

So there's no confusion, my green reference was in regards to number 1 earlier. I think 6 is just brilliant. How Thomas designed that hole without it coming off hokey is just incredible. The bunker fronting the green when it was first built is, IMHO, one the most artistic greens Bell or anybody else ever done.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm seeing a bunch of trees in that old pic.  When looking at an old pic of the original construction which hangs just outside the proshop I could have sworn I saw tree stakes here and there.

[David Stamm]

An even older pic of the same bunker......

[rjsimper]

Ryan, if I'm not mistaken, GT's original tee was more to the left than it is now before it was wiped out by the flood. I'm sure at that time the tee shot would have required more thought than it does now and going left might have looked more appealing depending on the pin position. But I agree with both you and David, standing there now and going left would probably not even register.

You are not mistaken, I think either Lynn or Michael hit on this earlier...though sometimes with my driver I might be better off aiming down the center of the barranca and just seeing what happens since the chances of me hitting where I aimed is small.

[James Bennett]

You are not mistaken, I think either Lynn or Michael hit on this earlier...though sometimes with my driver I might be better off aiming down the center of the barranca and just seeing what happens since the chances of me hitting where I aimed is small.

Judging from the recent thread and holes 16 and 17, Jordan should aim for the left hand fairway.

James B

[TEPaul]

David Stamm:

I'm so glad you produced the two photos of #6 from two different times. The way that front bunker developed over time (in-house maintenance practices) into one with those cool little lacy capes and bays is essentially the exact same thing that was done at Merion East.

That has got to be a direct east/west connection if there ever was one. George Thomas gives Merion's Hugh Wilson a tremendous amount of credit in his book as one of his primary mentors and I think as most know Wilson (and Flynn et al) were not only well respected architecture-minds they were also basically at the cutting edge of developing modern American agronomics.

That practice of allowing lacy capes and bays to grow from the bunker surrounds seems to be one developed at Merion East (it certainly didn't happen there by accident and it took quite a bit of time to develop that look on bunker surrounds).

It's so interesting that the early Riviera bunker surrounds depicted in that first photo (the later one) is a really close mimic of what was going on at Merion, and the earlier photo shows the bunker before that lacy cape and bay evolution took place.

I wish they would restore that look on the bunkers of both courses today----it was really something.

Bob Huntley:

The stories in your post #70 are just wonderful. Thanks for that.

[David Stamm]

David Stamm:

I'm so glad you produced the two photos of #6 from two different times. The way that front bunker developed over time (in-house maintenance practices) into one with those cool little lacy capes and bays is essentially the exact same thing that was done at Merion East.

That has got to be a direct east/west connection if there ever was one. George Thomas gives Merion's Hugh Wilson a tremendous amount of credit in his book as one of his primary mentors and I think as most know Wilson (and Flynn et al) were not only well respected architecture-minds they were also basically at the cutting edge of developing modern American agronomics.

That practice of allowing lacy capes and bays to grow from the bunker surrounds seems to be one developed at Merion East (it certainly didn't happen there by accident and it took quite a bit of time to develop that look on bunker surrounds).

It's so interesting that the early Riviera bunker surrounds depicted in that first photo (the later one) is a really close mimic of what was going on at Merion, and the earlier photo shows the bunker before that lacy cape and bay evolution took place.

I wish they would restore that look on the bunkers of both courses today----it was really something.

Bob Huntley:

The stories in your post #70 are just wonderful. Thanks for that.

Thanks, Tom. Permit me if you will to show some pics of Hanse and Wagner's bunker work at Soule Park and the striking simliarities. This is why I mentioned him earlier in the thread. The work at Soule was a tribute to that stlye of Thomas and Bell, and Hanse said as much. And they nailed it.

[Ian Larson]

David Stamm.....

If Im not mistaken the first picture of the 6th at Riviera is obviously after it was open for play. The second and older picture is right after Billy Bell constructed the green and bunkers and George Thomas just approved it for seeding.

[Sean_A]

David Stamm.....

If Im not mistaken the first picture of the 6th at Riviera is obviously after it was open for play. The second and older picture is right after Billy Bell constructed the green and bunkers and George Thomas just approved it for seeding.

I was thinking the same thing.  If you look closely, the green bunker doesn't look to be finished and the back bunker looks as though it might not even be roughed in, though the space is there, but the nose isn't. 

It is really cool that the guy is standing on the tongue - it gives some perspective as to the size of the bunker - which looks to be surprisingly huge!

I know you California types dig all the lacey edge nonsense, but I think the original (unfinished?) look is better looking because it fits in better.

Ciao

[Ian Larson]

Yeah, those pictures can be found in George Thomas' book. The caption for the older picture states that the picture was taken after the final construction approval and Thomas just gave the green light to seed it.

[TEPaul]

David Stamm:

Your photographic inclusions in the last few days are definitely some of the best stuff that has ever been put up on Golfclubatlas, and the reason is it photographically fills in the blanks for some text on here and some "architectural family tree" stuff that together is absolutely awesome.

For people just looking in on this website this stuff (the text posts and your photographic inclusions) is about as good as it can get. This kind of combined stuff is architectural education at its finest!

Good for you.

[Joe Hancock]

For people just looking in on this website this stuff (the text posts and your photographic inclusions) is about as good as it can get. This kind of combined stuff is architectural education at its finest!

That, and the wine lessons.....

Joe

[TEPaul]

"That, and the wine lessons....."

Joe, my philosophy is if a golf course architect doesn't drink he runs a risk of never living up to his conceptual potential! 

My old offer still stands---if there is any architect out there who wants a flask, believe me, I will send him one and there ain't never gonna be an IOU attached to it. 

[Steve Kline]

I just played Riviera for the first time (thanks to a generous GCAer) on Tuesday. (And another got me on Bel Air CC last Sunday - thanks). I thought the course was absolutely awesome. My host pointed out all the fine points of the design and some of the changes over the years. Regardless of what has or hasn't been changed it is a truly great golf course. The tee shot at 1 is a cool way to way to start although I think it was one of the lesser holes on the course. Doesn't mean it was a bad hole though. The stretch from 2 through 6 is truly great. It's amazing how all the contours of the 6th green work. I agree with others that the right 8th fairway is too wide. It seemed to be almost 40 yards wide - a very inviting target. As for the left fairway the trees didn't look to be much of a problem off the tee but it looked like you would have to work the ball around them on the second shot. Of course 10 is just a tremendous piece of strategy on a flat piece of ground. 11 reminded me somewhat of the stategy of #7 at PV. The tee shot was critical to get your second over the trouble just like at PV. 16 is another great hole. I loved the bunkering there as well as the bunkering in general. Shooting 73 my first time around was pretty nice too.

I really liked the kikuyu grass. At least for me it made the hitting the fairways important as I drew a couple of nasty lies in the rough from which it was difficult to advance the ball. The ball sat up like zoysia but the kikuyu could be cut shorter than zoysia. My ball seemed to roll nicely and while I didn't play any run up shots to greens I don't think it would be a problem at this time of year. A couple of areas mentioned earlier (right of 2 and left of 18) mostly likely don't accept runups because those areas are maintained as rough instead of fairway.

All in all - a great course that looked for very natural to the land. Probably one of the top 10-20 courses I've ever played.

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