[Joel_Stewart]

I'm sure the USGA scouted out the most important aspect of holding an Open at Chambers Bay.  No its not the golf course, its the open land that allows corporate tents, a television city and parking for the US Open.  These are the money generating items that make the US Open an event, a major happening for the world of golf.   

I looked at an aeriel image which doesn't show much.  There appears to be another golf course just down the road?  Is this piece of property that large it can accomidate all of the above plus 30,000 people?

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=6320+Grandview+Dr.+W&city=University+Place&state=WA&zipcode=98467#west

[Bob Jenkins]

Joel,

There is a very large area to the south of the old sorting bins, which are next to the 18th fairway. When we had the GCAtlas event there last May, Jay Blasi of RTJII mentioned that area was intended to serve that purpose if they were to get a big event. There is also access down there for service vehicles for food delivery, tents, etc.

Chambers Bay is a great course and a very inspiring setting. I still cannot believe the USGA has gone to them so soon. The course is not yet a year old. Very happy, however.

[Pete_Pittock]

Agree with Bob, there is enough land just south of the course for all the merchandise areas. They will have to shuttle many people to the site to avoid traffic nightmares, but the USGA has a lot of experience in that area. I saw Jay Blasi yesterday and they have a RFP out for a clubhouse. I think any architect/owner partnership that hopes to draw a major event will account for all that is needed.

[John Nixon]

Well, since it's been awarded an Open, by definition yes, it does have the facilities.

[Mike Erdmann]

The off-sites shouldn't be an issue - lots of open land to the south.  What I'm really curious to see is how they're going to handle the tens of thousands of fans while they're actually on the property.  Unlike other tournament venues, Chambers Bay really doesn't have flat, open areas between holes.  The areas between holes are faux-dunes, fairly steeply sloped in many areas, and pretty soft sand/gravel underfoot.  My first thought is that the USGA will really narrow the fairways, which would fit with their typical US Open setup, but will also provide room for the crowds.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Joel that piece of property is 600 acres.  That should be plenty of room for  corporate tents and television. 

Two golf courses to the ESE Fort Steilacoom which is owned by the county and Oakbrook G&CC which is private and my home course.  While they are very close as the crow flies, the drive must go around much of the Chambers Creek drainage.

[Garland Bayley]

I would also remind every that when they were building the course they discussed the possibility of a big event with Amtrak, who says they can run a train cycling between Olympia and Seattle and dropping patrons "courtside" as it were. The tracks are right next to the course with direct access to the course available.

[Jordan Wall]

Joel that piece of property is 600 acres.  That should be plenty of room for  corporate tents and television. 

Two golf courses to the ESE Fort Steilacoom which is owned by the county and Oakbrook G&CC which is private and my home course.  While they are very close as the crow flies, the drive must go around much of the Chambers Creek drainage.

Cos,

I dont know if I ever told you this, but after we played Oakbrook, I took a wrong turn and it took me an hour to get to Chambers!


Joel,
Chambers has plenty of room.  There are certain holes where the could be gallery issues, but for the most part I dont forsee any problems as far as facilities are concerned for the Open.

[PThomas]

i wonder if they will have to limit attendance due to the dunes etc

[Garland Bayley]

What is their largest sand waste area. I seem to remember 7 acres. Most of it is out of play. They could build bleachers there for viewing of I think it was #5.

[Joel_Stewart]

There are certain holes that appear to have no chance of having spectators unless they place grandstands on top of the dunes.  As an example, the 7th green at Pebble and 8th tee are off limits to spectators.

I don't see many people going here,



or here

[Bob Jenkins]

Regarding viewing areas, I suspect that any bleachers or simply viewing areas for standing will have
views of many holes. With a good pair of binocs, you should be able to see a lot of territory.

[tlavin]

If Merion has enough land, so does Chambers Bay.  I'm sure the USGA is counting on smaller crowds because of access and internal space issues.  To me, they're doing it in order to try a new course in a new part of the country and they don't particularly care if it doesn't make the kind of money that they'll make at Torrey or Bethpage or other venues with more space.  The selection represents proof that the USGA is changing for the better.

[Ken Moum]

I wish I could remember where, but I read something yesterday that said Chambers could accomodate 80,000 spectators.

Looking a the photos, that seems a bit optimistic,

K

[Garland Bayley]

If Merion has enough land, so does Chambers Bay.  I'm sure the USGA is counting on smaller crowds because of access and internal space issues.  To me, they're doing it in order to try a new course in a new part of the country and they don't particularly care if it doesn't make the kind of money that they'll make at Torrey or Bethpage or other venues with more space.  The selection represents proof that the USGA is changing for the better.

Your signature line suits this post perfectly.

[Paul Jones]

If Merion has enough land, so does Chambers Bay.  I'm sure the USGA is counting on smaller crowds because of access and internal space issues.  To me, they're doing it in order to try a new course in a new part of the country and they don't particularly care if it doesn't make the kind of money that they'll make at Torrey or Bethpage or other venues with more space.  The selection represents proof that the USGA is changing for the better.

I wonder if the USGA will cut back on the tickets sold at Merion because of the land and traffic?

[tlavin]

If Merion has enough land, so does Chambers Bay.  I'm sure the USGA is counting on smaller crowds because of access and internal space issues.  To me, they're doing it in order to try a new course in a new part of the country and they don't particularly care if it doesn't make the kind of money that they'll make at Torrey or Bethpage or other venues with more space.  The selection represents proof that the USGA is changing for the better.

Your signature line suits this post perfectly.

Heck, I'm always willing to admit that I'm wrong.  I guess the point that I was making is this: The USGA is willing to take the Open to Chambers Bay, in the Pacific Northwest, even if it means that they will have smaller crowds and make less money.  Now, perhaps a Pac Northwest booster would argue that the long-deprived golf fans of Seattle, Vancouver, etc. will make the event a sellout.  I hope it is.  All I'm saying is this is a good move for the USGA, even if there are more fishermen than golf fans in the general area.  I'll bet you a pound of your favorite brand of salmon jerky that the event will draw fewer spectators than bethpage>  If I'm wrong, you'll have something else offensive to chew on.

[Joe Hancock]

If Merion has enough land, so does Chambers Bay.  I'm sure the USGA is counting on smaller crowds because of access and internal space issues.  To me, they're doing it in order to try a new course in a new part of the country and they don't particularly care if it doesn't make the kind of money that they'll make at Torrey or Bethpage or other venues with more space.  The selection represents proof that the USGA is changing for the better.

Your signature line suits this post perfectly.

Garland,

See George Pazin's current thread about context. Your response here is precisely what he's talking about.

Joe

[Garland Bayley]

Since the USGA has to hold a lottery amongst their members to distribute the limited number of tickets they have for opens, since they are always sold out. I don't understand how anyone would think the USGA chose the site in spite of the possibility that they would not be able to sell enough tickets. Since Chambers Bay is a huge property, I don't see how they won't be able to have more spectators than Torrey Pines. How many golf courses have enough room that they feel they can safely route a jogging path through the center? Since Chambers Bay was built with the idea of hosting major tournaments, even to the point of building locations for bleachers along side fairways, I don't even understand the necessity for this thread.

As for salmon jerky, I cannot even fathom how such a product would be made.

As for my speculation about why the USGA picked Chambers Bay. Primarily, because it is a fabulous golf course in a fabulous location. Secondarily, perhaps because they wanted to get Whistling Straits into their rota, and got aced out by the PGA, because they were not agile enough. I suspect they learned from that and made the commitment ASAP.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

See George Pazin's current thread about context. Your response here is precisely what he's talking about.

Joe

I think Terry understood perfectly what I was talking about. Since my message was for him, it worked. Are you suggesting that in the future I should IM such a response?

[Peter_Herreid]

There are acres upon acres upon acres upon acres upon acres of room for all of the infrastructure needs and the spectator requirements at CB--it is quite a bit better identified in person than on any aerial or fore-shortened still picture.  The Pierce County "Event Grounds" (don't dare call it an amphitheatre, lest you get the stink eye from county administrators) just south of the course will be a great staging area for passengers coming by train or ferry, as well as home to all the USGA merchandising grounds and many of the "tented village" requirements...

There is the entire "high" perimeter of the course, from the back of #12, behind and left of #13, behind #4, #5 tee, #7 green, high and left of #8 and behind tee #9 which can be bleachered, if necessary, to provide a massive stadium approach, albeit with binoculars, to much of the proceedings.

Although not many of the holes can be lined both sides by bleachers, most of them can take them down one entire side or the other.  In addition, there is a public walking trail through many areas toward the low side of the course, and bleachers can be plopped down on top of those trails quite easily.

As far as the dunes themselves, they are not (at least not for a while) designated habitats for any Puget Sound endangered species, and they can be trampled over, around and under with impunity.  Spectators will likely be able to traverse them, limited only by their own physical abilities, as was the case at Whistling Straits.  The able-bodied will get some spectacular views of the action from above the #10 green for example...

I will talk to the folks on Wednesday, weather-permitting, and see if there is any thought of monkeying with the driving range area, as that could also be altered for corporate box/merchandising, etc...

I don't think that limited ticket sales ever entered into the discussion---quite the opposite.  Given the scarcity of men's professional golf up here, I bet they are planning quite the reverse, that the boffo ticket sales will make up for some considerations they have to make elsewhere, such as Merion...

The turn-out in the NW, which includes Portland and Vancouver, for an event here could be extraordinary, although it's always tough to project out 8 yrs....A lot depends on other factors affecting professional golf which have nothing to do with whether it's in Tacoma or not...

[Joe Hancock]

Garland,

See George Pazin's current thread about context. Your response here is precisely what he's talking about.

Joe

I think Terry understood perfectly what I was talking about. Since my message was for him, it worked. Are you suggesting that in the future I should IM such a response?

Not necessarily. This is a discussion group, however, and as such there is some obligation to explain the rationale behind opinions and comments. You disagreed with TL's position, and I would have liked to know why.

Nothing else implied.

Although, if your post is merely to call someone a dumbass, maybe that should be done in an IM.....

Joe

[Garland Bayley]

Not necessarily. This is a discussion group, however, and as such there is some obligation to explain the rationale behind opinions and comments. You disagreed with TL's position, and I would have liked to know why.

Nothing else implied.

Although, if your post is merely to call someone a dumbass, maybe that should be done in an IM.....

Joe

Joe,

I hope by now all of the context has been taken care of.

Why are you always such a serious poster?

Lighten up man.

[RJ_Daley]

I think Peter has it just right.  I also think that the best context to imagine all this is the comparison to the PGA and Senior event at Whistling Straits.  The only difference I see is that WS has so many extra farm fields that they rent out for parking, with short shuttles to the gate.  The Irish Course was also a nice crowd movement buffer.  The streets into Chambers were more residential and light commercial, so they might have a bit more congestion for those two weeks or so to annoy the local area residents.  But, the possible light rail stop, fair grounds (or whatever) and the room they have there in the extra corporate tent areas at CB would seem to have plenty of room for the infrastructure. 

As to the actual grounds of the golf course, again for context, I'd say it is about the same as WS.  They both have a service road or wide walking area through the course for people movement.  The slopes on the dunes are similar.  We saw plenty of folks slip on the dry fescue at WS.  In fact, my wife took about a 10ft slider down a slope next to 9.  The native grass might be more moist at CB in June, than dry August here.  Either way, Peter should change his specialty, and get a contract from the USGA to open an orthopedic first aid tent and make a buck there specializing in sprained and torn ligs ... 

I bet there are plenty of wanna-be golf venues that WISHED they had the planning challenges that CB has. With 7 years to plan, they will do just fine.

[Richard Choi]

I have to agree with Peter. There are many acres to install giant bleachers on Chambers Bay. And unlike Torrey Pines, there are no trees at Chambers Bay so even if most of those bleachers line the perimeter edges of the course, you will still be able to see actions on many holes.

Also, the biggest dunes on the course have flat top where you can build pathways and more bleachers (like those lining the 10th holes).

I can easily see them hosting 70,000 to 80,000 spectators.

Only problem I see is the access roads. The streets leading to Chambers Bay from the freeway are small and have many street lights. The backup from the course to the freeway will be unbelivable. My guess is they will setup a parking area somewhere near the freeway and shuttle people in.

One good thing is the train tracks nearby. There are commuter trains that service about 8000 people daily and I am guessing they could easily triple that for the US Open (since there will be riders beyond rush hours). And since the US Open patrons will be riding the opposite of commuters, that should work out just fine. I would expect 1/4 to 1/3 of the patrons to arrive at the site via trains, which should help a lot with the congestion.

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