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Kyle Henderson

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Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« on: February 04, 2008, 11:43:03 AM »
A new Shackelford article that might interest some of y'all.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2008/02/gw20080201shackelford
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tlavin

Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 12:00:35 PM »
A terrific article about the very-in-vogue short par-4.  Geoff analyzes its impact in tournament play and in architectural terms.  He points out the stellar shorties at Winged Foot, Oakmont, TPC Boston, among others.  He also profiles the granddaddy of them all, the 10th at Riviera.  A must read.
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 04:12:00 PM »
Extremely well written.
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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Garland Bayley

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 04:17:56 PM »
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 04:21:31 PM »
On one of the holes (TPC - Boston, I think) over 85% of the field went for the green.  How much strategy is involved when there is so little choice?  It may still be exciting, but is it really strategic?  I would argue that the most strategic hole is the one where the breakdown between going for it and laying up is closest.
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Kyle Henderson

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2008, 04:25:10 PM »
Quote from: Phil Benedict on February 04, 2008, 04:21:31 PM
On one of the holes (TPC - Boston, I think) over 85% of the field went for the green.  How much strategy is involved when there is so little choice?  It may still be exciting, but is it really strategic?  I would argue that the most strategic hole is the one where the breakdown between going for it and laying up is closest.

Although the average score (and the standard deviations) of players pursuing each option must also be weighed in.
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2008, 08:03:49 PM »
I would contend that in the first year of playing the course (TPC Boston) the important stat is not how many went for the green, but how many birdied going for it and how many birdied laying up.
Secondly, these guys play a different game than 99% of golfers.  They just try and overpower a course and even if they made par or bogey, they would still try and drive it.  A hole's merit should still be examined by how the other 99% are able to succeed, and do those who are able still try driving it.
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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

James Bennett

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2008, 08:43:30 PM »
Lynn

I suggest a variation on your test.  The quality of a short par 4 could be measured by the variation in the way that 99% of the golfers play the hole on return visits.  Score doesn't matter directly , although indirectly score will have influenced the variation in play

A great short par 4 might encourage many of those otherwise conservative 99% to occasionally take driver or a more aggressive line (perhaps when they were having a bad scorecard day, and didn't really care but they might achieve a memorable outcome with that one shot).  Or perhaps for those aggressive of the 99% who take driver, but are having a good round and are suddenly feeling nervous (a stroke round perhaps) to take an iron and lay-up.  Or take a more conservative line.

Thats a good short par

James B
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PThomas

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2008, 10:35:29 PM »
has Riviera's 10th become noticeably easier due to how long  the ball  goes nowadays??
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James Bennett

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Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2008, 10:52:07 PM »
For over 95% of the golfers IMO - No.  Probably just encourages players to take the more aggresive line on occasion.  And then revert back to a less aggresive line the next week.

I would be interested to see how the membership reacted with the tees back, and the tees forward.  Would some be encouraged to try the 'heroic' if they were playing forward of their normal tee location?

James B
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Jim Nugent

Re:Short Par 4s - Shackelford
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2008, 03:17:04 AM »
What % of pro's went for the green last year at Riviera?  
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