[mark chalfant]

Both of these Golden Age courses have a distinct sense of place. If Torresdale undertook a green expansion and tree management program to open up angles like ACC did,  how would you choose to spend ten rounds ??  I might choose...   6 to 4 . Try to compare in terms beyond the notion of championship venue. For instance , think in terms of a  match with hickory clubs or even c. 1960 equipment.

thanks

[TEPaul]

Mark:

Torresdale is pretty tree-lined and in a sense so is Aronimink but I don't know that removing trees at either would exactly open up many originally designed angles because I'm not sure many originally designed angles have been shut down that much. On a few holes maybe.

Aronomink probably did remove some trees but what they mostly did is limb-up most all the tree lining so you can now see under most trees and see many more parts of the course because of that. Obviously that does help create greater possibilities with recovery shots.

[JESII]

Torresdale is a fun course though, and assuming both courses are in good condition it should merit at least a few rounds out of 10 in a breakdown with Aronimink...I'd go for 3 or 4 out of 10.

I would think shorter hitters or higher handicaps that like severe greens could give the majority of rounds to Torresdale...TEP?

[TEPaul]

"I would think shorter hitters or higher handicaps that like severe greens could give the majority of rounds to Torresdale...TEP?"


That's the way I always thought about Torresdale and certainly compared to Aronimink.

Like a lot of Ross courses Torresdale does have a couple of tough holes just due to distance but Aronimink certainly has a lot more of them and that makes Aronimink sort of a workout for the shorter hitter.

What Torresdale has that Aronimink doesn't is a number of pretty sporty short par 4s.

[mike_malone]

 The T/F that I love does not exist. The tree problem there is on a massive scale. I see signs that they will give into the inevitability of that and possibly move some of the fairway bunkers closer to the middle of the fairway rather than expanding the fairways out onto the slopes that were originally used. These slopes are among the more interesting for playability in the whole area.

  Frankly, it depresses me that this classic gem could be lost forever.

   To compare it to Aronimink is difficult because the challenges of Aronimink are more distance oriented while T/F's are positioning , at least originally.

[Dave_Miller]

 
Aronomink probably did remove some trees but what they mostly did is limb-up most all the tree lining so you can now see under most trees and see many more parts of the course because of that. Obviously that does help create greater possibilities with recovery shots.

Tommy:
Some trees?  How about over 600 trees were removed at Aronimink>
Fairways and Greens,
Dave

[Dan Boerger]

I haven't played T/F in a number of years, but it's hard to compare it to Aronimink for the brute length comment others have already made. Aronimink's tree removal was, as Dave points out, massive, and those that remain (most notably on 7 and 18) serve those holes well IMO.

What should also be mentioned about Aronimink is the just how spectacularly maintained and consistent the course is under John Gosselin.

[mike_malone]

 You could say that these two courses speak to Ross's excellence. They are different in many ways, and while the Aronimink style is not my cup of tea there are many intelligent golfers who have a different view.

[Joe Bausch]

I have seen a 1939 photo of Torresdale from the Dallin collection.  There are some holes with trees in play back then, but nothing like now.

[mike_malone]

Joe,

   As with most courses it was the evergreens that were planted last and usually eliminated too many of the playing angles.

 

[Joe Bausch]

It has been a couple of years since I've played Torresdale, but I remember many, if not most, of the trees there being of the hardwood variety.  They are very mature and certainly do come into play on many holes.

I really like the comparisons of the two courses in the posts thus far.  Aronimink allows (requires?) you to boom it much more so than T'dale.  I like both courses lots.  If I had to make a 10 course breakdown, I'd lean ever so slightly to Aronimink.  Maybe 6 of 10 there.

[mike_malone]

 There are many hardwood trees at T/F. I wonder when most of them were planted. They are serious offenders as well. I have seen old aerials as well and the trees are significantly more disastrous now.

    I think the land for T/F is one of the best sites for golf in Philly as to its challenge and variety. My guess is that Ross had fun designing the course.  The massive tree plantings, whenever they happened, have covered the design more than any other classic course of value in the area.

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