Courses that would have done well with a new clubhouse location

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I thought Mucci used to go on and on about how the ground where the clubhouse at Spyglass is built would have been better for golf holes.  It might have been a different course in that area as it was years ago.

Couldn't have been Spyglass, at least not for that reason - the clubhouse is right in the middle of the course, nowhere near ocean, in the middle of huge trees, etc.  Even Mucci isn't that crazy.  He might have wanted it down nearer the water so that the course begins and ends in the dunes... but that seems pretty silly also as the logistics seem exceedingly problematic.  

And Mike, it was a shack, but I like shacks a lot better than overbuilt monstrosities.  Given they have a very nice full-function clubhouse next to the Bandon course, I thought the shack at Pacific was all that was needed and outside of the plexiglass, perfect.  Of course I trust those fellows to get things right, so I'm sure the new clubhouse at Pacific will be very nice... I will just pine away for the simple things that once were, as I pine away for the simple prices that once were up there.

[Kalen Braley]

Huck,

I thought Mucci used to go on and on about how the ground where the clubhouse at Spyglass is built would have been better for golf holes.  It might have been a different course in that area as it was years ago.

Couldn't have been Spyglass, at least not for that reason - the clubhouse is right in the middle of the course, nowhere near ocean, in the middle of huge trees, etc.  Even Mucci isn't that crazy.  He might have wanted it down nearer the water so that the course begins and ends in the dunes... but that seems pretty silly also as the logistics seem exceedingly problematic.  

And Mike, it was a shack, but I like shacks a lot better than overbuilt monstrosities.  Given they have a very nice full-function clubhouse next to the Bandon course, I thought the shack at Pacific was all that was needed and outside of the plexiglass, perfect.  Of course I trust those fellows to get things right, so I'm sure the new clubhouse at Pacific will be very nice... I will just pine away for the simple things that once were, as I pine away for the simple prices that once were up there.

Tom,

Those prices can still be had...in the wintertime.

I scoped out a trip there a couple of weeks back and with lodging at the resort (double occupancy) and golf (4 rounds) it was under $500.

I personally look forward to the new clubhouse at PacDunes.  And I know I'm in the minority view here, but that course deserves better than a double wide mobile home clubhouse.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:
Do you so soon forget the glories of a year ago?  Perhaps this picture will jog your memory:



Been there, done that.

As for the clubhouse, to each his own.  I thought what was at PD was perfect... I can't see the worth of each course in a resort needing it's own monster clubhouse.

TH

[John Moore II]

I think that Pine Needles would be better with the clubhouse in its old position where St. Joseph's Hospital is now. That would put #18 as hole 1 and 17 being the finisher. I think that would make for a great finish with a potential birdie par 3 at 17 and an excellent par 5 at 16. Plus, the round wouldn't get off to an awkward start with a mid length par 5 and then a backbreaker par 4 starting off.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen:
Do you so soon forget the glories of a year ago?  Perhaps this picture will jog your memory:



Been there, done that.

As for the clubhouse, to each his own.  I thought what was at PD was perfect... I can't see the worth of each course in a resort needing it's own monster clubhouse.

TH

I know you went a year ago and partook in the glory of Bandon in the winter....

I was just responding to your statement:

"I will just pine away for the simple things that once were, as I pine away for the simple prices that once were up there."

So my contention is, they just weren't once there, they are still there.  OK OK I'm quibling over a small thing...I'll crawl back in my hole now!  

[Tim Bert]

I agree that the Banff Springs routing appears to work better with the current #15 as #1.  #15 is a great opening tee shot, the Devil's Cauldron comes a little later in the round, the home stretch winding along the river with the view of the hotel makes for an excellent finish, and you leave the hike from #14 to #15 for after the round is done instead of inserting it right in the flow.

For PacDunes, have any of the armchair GCAs thrown out the following alternative?

Front
1,2,16,17,18,8,9,10,11  

Back
12,13,14,15,3,4,5,6,7

I don't see anything wrong with the current order and I know it isn't going to change, but this seems like a nice compromise with what JK threw out there.  Still a little imbalance with the par 5s, but I don't think the imbalance that exists today is a problem.  This one keeps 13 in almost the same spot in the routing and allows for one final sweep past the ocean on the way home.  Actually, 18 to 8 is probably a bit cumbersome.

I guess we'll leave it like Tom Doak found it.

As for the new clubhouse, I like the current offering, but I've been wishing for better Pacific Dunes merchandise for years.  I never understood why smaller clubhouse had to equal less appealing apparel.  It seems like they could have allowed some PD and BT items be sold in the main resort area.  My understanding is that this new clubhouse is coming with expanded merchandise, which is a positive.

[Tom Huckaby]

Aha - gotcha Kalen.

Fact is the prices have risen a lot in all seasons from what they once were.  It's to be expected given the high-quality, high-profile golf that exists up there... But it doesn't stop me from pining away.  And I'd like to go back some day when there is a lot of light in the day.  Sadly, I don't see that happening.

But enough of the tangent!

TH

[Kalen Braley]

You could route it this way to have returning 9's

Front 9
1, 2, 3, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18

Back 9
8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 4, 5, 6, 7

[David Botimer]

Having walked Pacific Dunes at least 100 times I think the routing is perfect.  The "touches" to the ocean are paced perfectly, while the finish at 18 gives any match play match (the best way to approach playing all three Bandon courses given ability to blow up on so many holes) a great match play hole finish....... Par 5, reachable in two with two perfectly executed shots, tragedy if not perfectly struck!!!

The course at Bandon I wish was rerouted with new clubhouse is Trails.  New location at the 7th green / 11th tee.  New #1 is #8, with same routing throughout.  Reasoning for this is the current finish is a total kick in the ass starting with 14.  I've witnessed all but 1 scratch or better golfer (thats MANY) reach 14 at or near par and fall apart with "bogey out" finish on closing 5 holes due to difficulty of close.  For the mere mortal golfer, many walk off 18 shaking their head due to difficulty, and as paying customers that mindset seems to cloud perceptions of the quality of the course.  A finish on 7 is difficult, but not the beast of 15-18, plus leaves a great late afternoon match play playoff sequence to replay 8-10 for match closure.

[David Botimer]

I agree that the Banff Springs routing appears to work better with the current #15 as #1.  #15 is a great opening tee shot, the Devil's Cauldron comes a little later in the round, the home stretch winding along the river with the view of the hotel makes for an excellent finish, and you leave the hike from #14 to #15 for after the round is done instead of inserting it right in the flow.

For PacDunes, have any of the armchair GCAs thrown out the following alternative?

Front
1,2,16,17,18,8,9,10,11  

Back
12,13,14,15,3,4,5,6,7

I don't see anything wrong with the current order and I know it isn't going to change, but this seems like a nice compromise with what JK threw out there.  Still a little imbalance with the par 5s, but I don't think the imbalance that exists today is a problem.  This one keeps 13 in almost the same spot in the routing and allows for one final sweep past the ocean on the way home.  Actually, 18 to 8 is probably a bit cumbersome.

I guess we'll leave it like Tom Doak found it.

As for the new clubhouse, I like the current offering, but I've been wishing for better Pacific Dunes merchandise for years.  I never understood why smaller clubhouse had to equal less appealing apparel.  It seems like they could have allowed some PD and BT items be sold in the main resort area.  My understanding is that this new clubhouse is coming with expanded merchandise, which is a positive.

I don't care for your sequencing of "ocean touches".  Current routing gives you perfect rhythm of seeing ocean while preserving "no clubhouse on water", unlike Pebble.

As for PD / BT sales in BD golf shop, I believe they already have limited goods available for them.

[Sean_A]

I think that Pine Needles would be better with the clubhouse in its old position where St. Joseph's Hospital is now. That would put #18 as hole 1 and 17 being the finisher. I think that would make for a great finish with a potential birdie par 3 at 17 and an excellent par 5 at 16. Plus, the round wouldn't get off to an awkward start with a mid length par 5 and then a backbreaker par 4 starting off.

Kenneth

Thanks!  That Pine Needles clubhouse is a nightmare.  I thought something must have happened for it to end up where it is (which could more or less be anywhere because there is no connection with the course) and whoever created the style of the building should be shot.

Ciao  

[Jim Nugent]

John, seeing as building roads is your business, do you have any suggestions for how the road in Old Mac's Road Hole should be designed/constructed?

Tom Doak -- have you considered hiring John as expert consultant on Old Mac?  

[Tom_Doak]

Both of the alternative routings suggested for Pacific Dunes would have you walking from 18 over to 8 ... a long break in the action.  

Kalen, we did consider the sequence as you posted it in order to give returning nines, but Mike said it wasn't really important in their particular circumstances, and circumstances have proven him to be right.

[CHrisB]

You could route it this way to have returning 9's

Front 9
1, 2, 3, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18

Back 9
8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 4, 5, 6, 7

Kalen,
If you flipped your nines--play 8-12, 4-7 (par 34) as the front and 1-3, 13-18 (par 37) as the back--you'd have a seamless transition from front to back (the walk from #7 green to #1 tee is short and easy). Would be an easier first tee shot but would have the same great finish.

But I like the current routing better. I really like non-returning nines--a true "out-and-in" makes it feel more like an journey, especially on that piece of property. PacDunes isn't one of those "go get in a quick nine" kind of courses anyway.