How much GCA is done by non-GCA's

[Adam_F_Collins]

...Or companies which are not specifically GCA focused? Are many golf course developments being created now by firms which sell themselves as 'one-stop-shops' doing more than just golf course architecture - but perhaps building architecture as well?

Is it common for landscape architecture firms to offer golf course design as just one of their services?

How many of the developments out there are being created by this type of operation?

And beyond that - how many are being built by amateurs?

[paul cowley]

...Or companies which are not specifically GCA focused? Are many golf course developments being created now by firms which sell themselves as 'one-stop-shops' doing more than just golf course architecture - but perhaps building architecture as well?

THIS HAPPENS, ESPECIALLY WHEN ONE HIRES A LARGER PLANNING/ENGINEERING FIRM.

Is it common for landscape architecture firms to offer golf course design as just one of their services?

YES...BUT PERSONS WITH L.A. DEGREES ARE NOT GCA'S.

How many of the developments out there are being created by this type of operation?

ITS HARD TO SAY.

And beyond that - how many are being built by amateurs?

ITS HARD TO SAY.

[Adam_F_Collins]

Happy New Year, Paul.

A

[paul cowley]

Actually Adam, much of the GCA that comes out of planning/engineering firms is usually relegated to a routing....which is typically prepared to move the project forward until it gets a designer on board. Many times this can be bad because a designer can be stuck with these early routing efforts.

Most LA degree programs include at least one planning project that might include a golf routing...which is not enough experience to hang a shingle on.....but you would be surprised how many LA's think they actually have golf experience based on what they studied in school.

This is a very strange business when it comes to training and education....its almost like some kind of weird Guild or apprentice program with no set criteria or application process.

[Tom_Doak]

The biggest land planning firms shy away from selling themselves as golf course architects, because they know it makes the real architects recommend somebody else.  However, those firms think nothing of drawing a routing plan on day 1 (without ever walking through it) and then resisting any changes when the real designer comes on board.

[Ray Richard]

It's good practice to have the engineering or land planning company define the work limits, establish the setbacks, delineate the wetland areas then hand it over to a GCA. If they meddle in the routing, strange golf will occur.

[George Pazin]

And beyond that - how many are being built by amateurs?

I'd be curious to know if anyone has researched this. There are some mom and pop type operations around Pittsburgh - quite a few, actually - that I'd have to guess were frequently done by amateurs. No frills golf. The Golf Channel did a big thing a couple weeks ago on a course down in South Carolina that was a farm converted by its owner into a golf course.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd guess that it was more common years ago, before the myriad of zoning, environmental and other bureaucratic intrusions.

[TaylorA]

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd guess that it was more common years ago, before the myriad of zoning, environmental and other bureaucratic intrusions.

George, here's one that really threw me for a loop. Trinitas Golf Club in California was apparently built without a single permit. Suffice to say, the course isn't open yet - who knows when it will open.

Course website: http://www.trinitasgolf.com/
Article: http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070427/A_SPORTS/704270333
Another article: http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071105/A_NEWS/711050305/-1/A_COMM02

[Ryan Farrow]

And beyond that - how many are being built by amateurs?

I'd be curious to know if anyone has researched this. There are some mom and pop type operations around Pittsburgh - quite a few, actually - that I'd have to guess were frequently done by amateurs. No frills golf.

And we all know how that turned out! Pittsburgh has the worst public golf courses in the country.

 I think Roseridge is my favorite of the bunch, theres also a short 9 hole course in Tarentum that could have some pretty neat holes. Doesn't hurt that both courses have creeks and some pretty interesting topography, too bad they are both terrible, as is. I kind of group every bad course in Pgh into this mom and pop category because I can't see anything professional about them. Hopefully, some day, things will change.

[Norbert P]

Is it common for landscape architecture firms to offer golf course design as just one of their services?

 As a landscaper, I'll consider all requests, and wouldn't turn down the opportunity to offer services for golf related designs, but I'd also be honest with my limitations. I've read books about how to build greens - USGA, Cal, purrwick, etc., but my hands-on experience is nil.  So, I'd probably only be hired if I was cheap and could convince a client of proven concepts that I'd stolen from Old Dead Guys.

Heck, I don't want to be a Mike Young "Golf Guy", but I do feel like my studies have taught me more than just "trees in threes" (a rule that really bugs me) and "drainage, drainage, drainage."


 

[Norbert P]

This is a very strange business when it comes to training and education....its almost like some kind of weird Guild or apprentice program with no set criteria or application process.

Is there any accredited institution that offers a "Golf Course Architecture" degree?

 I remember researching and finding a golf business school in Delphi, NY but I don't know if they offered a degree in the GCA field.

[Michael Dugger]

Edinburgh, Scotland, Slag, Herriot Watt University.

MsC program, Brain Phillips and FBD attended it (amongst others)......

[Norbert P]

Thanks Michael, but I went to their website and did find anything. Here's they're SEARCH url.  http://www.hw.ac.uk/home/search

  They do have a wing in Dubai ( Wha ?)
Perhaps an apprenticeship program on Tiger's course?

[paul cowley]

This is a very strange business when it comes to training and education....its almost like some kind of weird Guild or apprentice program with no set criteria or application process.

Is there any accredited institution that offers a "Golf Course Architecture" degree?

 I remember researching and finding a golf business school in Delphi, NY but I don't know if they offered a degree in the GCA field.

Slag....not really....but you are in fact on the same track I took.

I started my first landscape company at age 18...and now [I will spare you the details], 37 years later, here I am! [whatever that means...or measures].


Work hard and good luck, because you will need both of them.

....and if I can ever help, I am just an IM away.