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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bunkers By The Minute
« on: January 15, 2008, 09:56:00 AM »
What if an architect's bunkering of a course was limited to a maximum amount of time it would take to hand rake them?

Generally, I have more of an issue with the size of bunkers than the number of them on a golf course.  Most could be smaller and serve the same function.

Whatdayathink?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tom Roewer

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 10:03:40 AM »
One of the ugliest sights on a golf course is where sand pros exit bunkers after service, time and time again.  If your thought in practice could at least limit these monsters, i'm all for it.

Peter Nomm

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 10:25:28 AM »
I have my superintendent working on a study right now of how much it costs us annually to maintain bunkers - HAZARDS!  I'll know better once we know for sure, but I am inclined to think that we can clearly convince the Greens Chairman that we need to significantly move those dollars to more worthy areas of maintenance, and go to a minimal bunker maintenance program such as raking them all weekly with only "touch-ups" on a daily basis.

We have 52 bunkers so hand-raking daily may prove to be too much, but if we simply hit the bad spots we may be able to reduce our costs significantly.  

If anyone has had any success with something like this I would love to hear it.  

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 10:52:19 AM »
I have my superintendent working on a study right now of how much it costs us annually to maintain bunkers - HAZARDS!  I'll know better once we know for sure, but I am inclined to think that we can clearly convince the Greens Chairman that we need to significantly move those dollars to more worthy areas of maintenance, and go to a minimal bunker maintenance program such as raking them all weekly with only "touch-ups" on a daily basis.

We have 52 bunkers so hand-raking daily may prove to be too much, but if we simply hit the bad spots we may be able to reduce our costs significantly.  

If anyone has had any success with something like this I would love to hear it.  

The top article  on the Web page below might be of use to you.

http://www.gcsaa.org/cm/contentm/modules/display_dynamic.ahtml?params=MSwzNDIsMDAwMDIuMDAwMDQ
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Carter Hindes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 11:12:04 AM »
Tom I can't agree with you more.  As a golfer I would rather see bunkers touched up early in the week and handraked on the weekend than a sandpro everyday wearing down the edges and leaving sand around the bunkers.
Carter Hindes

John Moore II

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 01:16:59 PM »
At my club we have been having problems with the sand being thrown up to the edges and the centers being very thin and rocky. That is coming from using the Sand Pros for the raking and going fast while doing it. Its a problem, but not one that anyone seems willing to address. I would like to see all bunkers hand raked, but I understand that its not likely to happen.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 01:48:39 PM »
One of the ugliest sights on a golf course is where sand pros exit bunkers after service, time and time again.  If your thought in practice could at least limit these monsters, i'm all for it.


Like this example?

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 01:58:06 PM »
I hate to think how much it costs to maintain our revetted bunkers. With around 70 on the links each requires rebuilding every 10 years taking 3 or 4 men a couple of days. Add in daily raking and I'm sure the numbers are sobering.......needless to say I'm not even going to investigate, because whatever the cost it's worth it!
Cave Nil Vino

Ryan Farrow

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 02:03:25 PM »
No Mike, like this:


David Druzisky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 02:23:17 PM »
Mark - Where are you that you have revetted bunkers?  Sorry for the ignorance.

Bunkers, Bunkers, Bunkers! They are so missunderstood!

There are so many variables that effect and detemine a formula for proper bunker maintenance.  Sometmes that proper formula can fall into the "less is more" category.  If properly built, and not effeted by mother nature too much, whats wrong with most days consisting of just review and touch up by the staff?

Proper bunker care should be as much insuring proper sand distribution throughout the areas of the bunker as much as it is about making the sand pretty and without prints etc.  Unfortunately too many operations just throw the mechanical rake in them without basis.  It is just a work item on the daily to-do list.  (This coming from the son of a golf course superintendent)

DbD

John Moore II

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 02:24:59 PM »
Such lovely pictures of the bunkers guys. Its such a shame that in efforts to cut costs, things like this occur. It would only take something as simple as using a different spot to leave each day to cure this. However, as I have said, hand raking is the best, if not the most cost effective, method.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 02:26:49 PM »
Are not the golfers who find said bunker responsible for raking?

If over-watering with improper coverage is to blame for re-occurring issues within some bunkers, those resources are much better spent fixing the heads to alleviate the cause. Then, only after significant rain would care need to be taken.


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 05:05:59 PM »
Mark - Where are you that you have revetted bunkers?  Sorry for the ignorance.

DbD

Deal (Royal Cinque Ports)
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

John Moore II

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 05:51:40 PM »
Does anyone think of the possibility that maybe bunkers do not always have to be raked and pretty? After all, they are designed to be hazards and making them all nice and everything sort of defeats the idea of a hazard. Just an idea though.

Peter Nomm

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 08:26:59 PM »
Does anyone think of the possibility that maybe bunkers do not always have to be raked and pretty? After all, they are designed to be hazards and making them all nice and everything sort of defeats the idea of a hazard. Just an idea though.

Johnny - I totally agree, but try telling that to a membership.  I struggled to get them to realize we didn't need to edge them every week.

But I will tell this - each fall in October after most of our members are gone we stop maintaining the bunkers.  That is the time of year I find them the most playable (other than an occasional footprint or deer track).  That is what got us thinking about reducing our maintenance practices.

John Moore II

Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 09:16:01 PM »
Peter--yes I know membership would never go for the idea of unmaintained bunkers. Mine would never go for it either, I have to hold myself back from telling them sometimes that bunkers are supposed to be penal and not perfect. But who am I?

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2008, 09:22:43 PM »
This is the reason why I remain unsure about why Pawleys Plantation removed the steps from the bunkers...I like the look of steps; they're intimidating.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Nick Cauley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 05:01:53 PM »
I Agree with Johnny and Peter
Bunkers are a supposed to be a hazard, but you cant tell your members that.  When a golfer would rather hit into a bunker than hit into the rough, that tells it all.  Last year in February we spent 506 man hours in the bunkers, that includes hand-raking, throwing up bunkers from the rains and checking sand depths.  On average we have 7 people in the bunkers on a daily basis,
finishing in 4.5 hours.    

JSPayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 05:18:21 PM »
I have been to many courses where a lot of time was spent on the bunkers, and there were some complaints. Not alot, but some. At my current course, we hand rake all bunkers (only 39 and not excessively large), but full rake only 2-3 times a week and "touch-up" on the days in between. And the only complaints we've gotten are from too much/too little sand, or exposed bunker fabric (again, too little sand). Also a few complaints about consistancy since some bunkers have had sand replaced within the last few years and others have much older, somwhat contaminated sand.

My point is this, you need to ask the right questions. Is your membership more concerned about playability or aesthetic? You may say both, but both can still be acheived with the method we use here (NOT full raking everyday). If aesthetics are the issue, is it from color of sand, sand levels, appearance of the edges, etc? If it's playability, is it because of sand levels, consistancy, soft/firm sand, or really from poor raking? And even if you do actually get down to the point where the major complaint is truely due to poor raking, it begs the question of who is to blame. Even if the bunkers are raked pristinely first thing in the morning, if the first guy that blasts out of it doesn't feel like raking it, then every golfer behind him has justification for complaint, but NOT because of maintenance, because of golfer etiquette instead.

Bunkers are hazards and there is really no reason huge amounts of time, labor and money should be spent on them, ESPECIALLY on raking. Work on playability and consistancy first and I think you would find that most golfers will rarely complain about poor raking (the job that ultimately takes the most time and therefore costs the most money).
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Dave Givnish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunkers By The Minute
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 06:12:39 PM »
Have you looked at changing to a firmer mix?  We've got very firm (almost hard) bunkers.  They hold up to play better through the day, and I think I see much less "compromised" lies like fried eggs. They take a bit of getting used to, but I like playing out of them much better than the white sugar "TV" sand I see out East so much.