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Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« on: January 16, 2008, 01:52:20 PM »
The pedigree thread got me thinking about courses that have changed over time....and was that change respecting  OR disrespecting its pedigree.

Question: What other courses and architects continued to revisit and tinker with their initial designs as much at Donald Ross did at Pinehurst #2?


John Moore II

Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 01:56:24 PM »
I am not certain anyone has tinkered as much as Ross did with #2, but Dye has admitted to tinkering with several of his courses, reworking them 2 or 3 times. Harbor Town, TPC, and Cardinal CC in Greensboro, NC come to mind. But I am not certain if anyone ever stayed with a club as much as Ross did with #2.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 01:56:47 PM »
Thompson at Jasper Park.

He even burnt the place down once or twice.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 02:22:12 PM »
Pebble has certainly undergone numerous transformations.

Dye and Crooked Stick hasn't been mentioned yet.

Seems the Fownes tinkered with Oakmont a fair bit over the years.

Ah, how about Augusta?



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

John Moore II

Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 02:29:40 PM »
Mike--
Yes thats correct the Fownes' did tinker with Oakmont for a very long time. Adding and Removing stuff over the years. That may be the best example to Ross.
With Augusta, I am not sure about that. Jones and Roberts did not change much from what I know. The changes there have been done later by different people.

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 02:33:11 PM »
I suppose the nuance I am trying to highlight is how do we define "pedigree" or "intent" AND once we define it, who gets (has the permission/right) to implement it.

If Dye continues on at Crooked Stick then that seems fine and seems to me to honor its pedigree.

If Fownes tinkered with Oakmont then that seems fine and seems to honor its pedigree.

Augusta...well, we all know the story on that one, with the many architects to drive down magnolia lane and how the rough (excuse me, second cut) is not necessarily in keeping with Mackenzie's vision.


wsmorrison

Re:Ross and life long tinkering with #2
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 02:41:38 PM »
Flynn was the consulting architect at Lancaster CC from 1919 until his death in 1945.  During this time he was reworking the course in many significant ways as balls, implements and players improved and as flooding proved to impact play.

Flynn vacationed and tinkered with the Cascades course from its very beginnings in 1922 through at least 1935.

Hugh Wilson and Flynn reworked Merion East from its inception in 1912 through Wilson's death in January 1925.  Flynn continued to rework and redesign the course beyond the 1934 US Open.  Consistent work was done on hole lengthening and rebunkering.  In addition, holes 1,2,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 and 15 were significantly remodeled.  

Chip,

I guess in your mind they should have kept on tinkering  ;D
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 03:18:53 PM by Wayne Morrison »