[Sean_A]

I found Adrian's list of Open venues quite interesting because we more or less agreed on what the back of the pack are: Lytham, Troon & Carnoustie, just the order is different, but that is really neither here nor there.  What is really wild is the difference of opinion on the top courses.  

My (Adrian's) open rota of best-worst would be:
1. TOC
2. Muirfield
3. Turnberry
4. Royal birkdale
5. RSG
6. Hoylake (never actually been there)
7. Carnoustie
8. Lytham
9. Troon

My list would be something like this:

SANDWICH: Head and shoulders above all the others.  Its a wonderful driving course and it still retains some funk.  

Now it gets a it odd because I actually prefer three courses no longer used for Opens more than the next currently used course.

PRESTWICK: A lot of excellent holes which could be included in a whats what of golf - #s 3, 13, 16 & 17.  

PORTRUSH: Its a shame the club allows this gem to be strangled by rough.  It was here that I got my first taste of what the weather can do to a golfer.  Just looking at the shelters built into the dunes is enough to put a crick in me back.  

DEAL: The powers that be probably got the most out of this property.  I don't think Deal has as many standout holes as its near neighbour, but holes like 3, 6, 10 & 16 are good enough for me!
TOC: Nuff said

I can't choose between MUIRFIELD, HOYLAKE & BIRKDALE: These three are very different from each other and all have elements to admire.  I would like to get to know them all better, but from initial and the odd subsequent visit I can't see spending the green fee is a particularly good investment.
MUSSELBURGH - the shocker, but its my sort of place.  You pays yer money and play.
TURNBERRY: Wonderful setting with a truly magnificent hotel.  I don't believe the golf quite lives up to the hype and I wonder if it couldn't have benefitted from a routing which touched the sea on a few occasions rather than the big splurge from 4-11.  
CARNOUSTIE: Its too bloody tough for me to properly enjoy.
TROON & LYTHAM: Troon is too tough & Lytham is too contrived.

I left out Princes because the course has been altered beyond any recognition as an Open  venue.  However, it is safe to say I prefer it to many of the Open courses.  I like this style of low-profile golf.

How would you lot rate the Open courses?  

Ciao  

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Where would you put TOC?

I haven't played RSG, Birkdale, Lytham or Troon but my order of the rest would be:

Muirfield
TOC
Hoylake
Carnoustie
Turnberry

There was something about Turnberry that didn't do it for me, lovely setting but I just didn't feel the course was quite up there.  Perhaps due to the anti-climactic finish.

I'd probably put Prestwick after TOC and ahead of Hoylake.  I haven't (yet) played Deal or Portrush.

I wonder with all these if I'd rate the order differently with more plays.  Two of these courses I've played frequently enough to be familiar with them (Muirfield, Hoylake).  The others are based on one or two plays, which is enough to form an impression but not, neccesarily, an accurate one.

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Before I answer that, a question:  am I rating them best overall, favorite for me personally, or best host for the championship?  If you asked me to do all three, those would be quite different.

[Bart Bradley]

Sean:

Before I answer that, a question:  am I rating them best overall, favorite for me personally, or best host for the championship?  If you asked me to do all three, those would be quite different.

Hey Tom,

Do all 3 if its not too much trouble...many of us would be interested.

Bart

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Before I answer that, a question:  am I rating them best overall, favorite for me personally, or best host for the championship?  If you asked me to do all three, those would be quite different.

Tom

I have rated them based purely on preference - meaning if I had to place my money on the counter which would I choose to play.  So this is the sort of list I would like to see most.  

Mark

I would put TOC 5th, but I could see a good argument for as high as 2nd.  

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, let me do it by preference of viewing.  Which courses do I want to see host the Open?
TOC
Muirfield
Carnoustie
Royal St. George
Royal Birkdale
Turnberry

My preference to play.  I have played all of the above.

Royal St. George
TOC
Royal Birkdale
Royal Portrush
Muirfield

[Jeff_Brauer]

The only fair criteria would be by the cart girls, no?

[TEPaul]

How would I rate "THE OPEN" courses?

Well, for starters I might put Shinnecock or Oakmont at the top of the list.  

I really don't know enough about GB courses to rate the courses of the british open.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sean,

More on point and seriously, I would have to rate them personallay only, since I don't know much about the logistics of running an Open.

Your "Adrians list" is not badly ordered, but I would put RSG and Carnoustie higher, based on personal faves.  Not that exact order matters, since I like them all.

Stars and Redwings tomorrow night!

[Jon Wiggett]

My order of playing preferance would be:

1. TOC
2. Prestwick
3. Lytham
4. Muirfield
5. Turnberry
6. Royal birkdale
7. Hoylake
8. Mussleburgh
9. Carnoustie
10.Troon

Haven't played RSG, sandwich, Portrush & Deal yet so I can't say.

 

[Adrian_Stiff]

I found Adrian's list of Open venues quite interesting because we more or less agreed on what the back of the pack are: Lytham, Troon & Carnoustie, just the order is different, but that is really neither here nor there.  What is really wild is the difference of opinion on the top courses.  

My (Adrian's) open rota of best-worst would be:
1. TOC
2. Muirfield
3. Turnberry
4. Royal birkdale
5. RSG
6. Hoylake (never actually been there)
7. Carnoustie
8. Lytham
9. Troon

My list would be something like this:

SANDWICH: Head and shoulders above all the others.  Its a wonderful driving course and it still retains some funk.  

Now it gets a it odd because I actually prefer three courses no longer used for Opens more than the next currently used course.

PRESTWICK: A lot of excellent holes which could be included in a whats what of golf - #s 3, 13, 16 & 17.  

PORTRUSH: Its a shame the club allows this gem to be strangled by rough.  It was here that I got my first taste of what the weather can do to a golfer.  Just looking at the shelters built into the dunes is enough to put a crick in me back.  

DEAL: The powers that be probably got the most out of this property.  I don't think Deal has as many standout holes as its near neighbour, but holes like 3, 6, 10 & 16 are good enough for me!
TOC: Nuff said

I can't choose between MUIRFIELD, HOYLAKE & BIRKDALE: These three are very different from each other and all have elements to admire.  I would like to get to know them all better, but from initial and the odd subsequent visit I can't see spending the green fee is a particularly good investment.
MUSSELBURGH - the shocker, but its my sort of place.  You pays yer money and play.
TURNBERRY: Wonderful setting with a truly magnificent hotel.  I don't believe the golf quite lives up to the hype and I wonder if it couldn't have benefitted from a routing which touched the sea on a few occasions rather than the big splurge from 4-11.  
CARNOUSTIE: Its too bloody tough for me to properly enjoy.
TROON & LYTHAM: Troon is too tough & Lytham is too contrived.

I left out Princes because the course has been altered beyond any recognition as an Open  venue.  However, it is safe to say I prefer it to many of the Open courses.  I like this style of low-profile golf.

How would you lot rate the Open courses?  

Ciao  

Sean- My list was a current rota 9 so i excluded a few. Had I included those, Prestwick would be very high on my play list although in its current form its too quirky to hold the modern open IMO. I dont have enough knowledge of Portrush to know where to slot that one and although Ive been to Deal I did not really walk it properly, but I suspect Id have Portrush higher than Deal and I think Princes is pretty good but would be on the end of the list, quite a lot still remains id say 75% of the old 1932 layout. We are ofcourse picking the best out of 'beauty contest' so there are no mingers, although I suspect some of other great UK & Ireland links would be in manys top 10s.

[Mark Chaplin]

Whilst respecting TE Paul's opinion, it's interesting to note not only is the Open Championship 35 years older than the US Open, but that venerable institution the USGA refers to it's own event as the US Open on it's website.......case closed??

As for rating venues it's really down to who can cope with a modern championship. Have a restricted gate of say 10 000 for one year only and see which possible venues could host a great event and with a little tweaking provide a stern challenge. I'm thinking Dornoch, Portcawl, Deal, Western Gailes, Saunton, etc, etc.

Of the 5 I've played I'll go;

1. HCEG
2. TOC
3. RStG
4 = Hoylake/Lytham

[Philippe Binette]

For hosting the Championship proper (I haven't seen Royal St Georges):

1) Muirfield (always won by a great player - best test shot for shot)
2) The Old Course (just a little too relying on playing conditions)
3) Lytham and St Annes (any type of player can win there - Pavin to Woods)
4) Probably Royal St Georges

5) Carnoustie, Royal Liverpool, Royal Birkdale, Royal Troon; Hell it's the Open Championship, you can't go wrong
 

[Philippe Binette]

Another course in the rota:

Royal Dornoch would be at number 3 if they played there

[michael_j_fay]

I'm with Sean:

Royal St. Georges is spectacular, interesting and penal.
Although the current version of Prestwick was only used once it has some of the most interesting holes in golf.
TOC
Royal Portrush is marvelously configured and with great peril off the tees. A little short in the green department.
Turnberry is strategic and just so damned pretty it has to be respected.
Royal Liverpool has subtlety that escapes many of the Lancashire courses.
Birkdale is beautiful and treacherous, yet somewhat formulaic.
Deal has a charm that is appealing.
Lytham is one hard golf course with probably the best strategic bunkering for today's game.
Carnoustie is always cast off as the brute. It ain't pretty but the last four holes will test the game and the nerve of any player.
Musselburgh is wonderfully quirky and a certain test.
Royal Troon has always escaped me.
Princes RIP

Let me say that I would rather play Royal Troon in a hearty wind than any of the others on a calm day. The wind dictates how good, bad or indifferent your experience will be at any of these wonderful venues.

[Philippe Binette]

Micheal

you forgot Muirfield....

Have you been to Royal Troon, to me it would be the last place I would like to play if the wind picks up, it's too damn narrow...

I personnally thought that without a crowd blocking balls from the gorse, the scores at Troon would be 5-6 shots higher (and one hour more to play the course

[michael_j_fay]

My apologies to the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers.
In my opinion it rates just above Lytham.

Phillippe, I have played them all and what I was trying to say is that all of these great courses are dependent on the wind to create difficulty and strategy. I am not a great fan of Troon but Troon with a 25 mph wind is much more interesting than RSG on a calm day. Luckily, calm days appear infrequently at any of these venues.

[Tom_Doak]

The only course on the rota for which I have no fond feelings is Royal Birkdale.  It has some big dunes, but it doesn't use them for anything but framing; the bunkering is less engaging than any of the other venues; and the greens are blah, too.  It's a stout test of golf but that's all.  Ninth of nine on my list -- a 7 on the Doak scale.

I realize some people find Royal Lytham & St. Annes and Royal Troon and Royal Liverpool and Carnoustie charmless, but I think those people are too taken by setting -- all four courses have more interesting holes and more interesting bunkering than Birkdale.  I think all four of these courses are pretty close together, as they are all 8's on the Doak scale.  If I had to rate them, I'd put them in the order above, from best to worst.  I'd guess most posters would put them almost the other way around, but I think that the rest of you are too heavily influenced by however the last Open happened to play out, which is largely a matter of luck.  Lots of courses could correctly identify Sergio Garcia as not worthy.

That leaves Turnberry fourth on my list -- another 8 on the Doak scale, but undeniably a better setting for golf than the others.

Royal St. George's is third -- a solid 9.  If I were to choose to play one or the other tomorrow, I would go with Sandwich over Muirfield, but only because I've played Muirfield far more often.

Muirfield and St. Andrews both got 10's in my book.  The Old Course is still far ahead, because Muirfield relies too much on its impenetrable rough.

So, for those of you who just like to read lists:

1.  St. Andrews
2.  Muirfield
3.  Royal St. George's
4.  Turnberry (Ailsa)
5.  Royal Lytham & St. Annes
6.  Royal Troon
7.  Royal Liverpool
8.  Carnoustie
9.  Royal Birkdale

There are easily 20 other links courses I'd rather play again than Birkdale.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Based on the ones I've played:
1. Muirfield
2. TOC
3. Turnberry
4. Hoylake
5. Royal Lytham
6. Carnoustie
7. Musselburgh

[Mark Pearce]

There are easily 20 other links courses I'd rather play again than Birkdale.

You knew, didn't you, that someone would ask for a list of those 20?  To save anyone else that bother, I'll ask you.

I'm guessing the list will include:  Dornoch, North Berwick, Machrihanish, Prestwick, Cruden Bay, RND, Brancaster, Saunton, Burnham & Berrow, St Enodoc, Deal and Silloth.

I'm pretty sure it won't include Seaton Carew

[Ash Towe]

From the ones I have played, my preferance is-

Muirfield
St Andrews
Turnberry
Royal Lytham
Carnoustie
Troon
Birkdale
Hoylake

[Kyle Henderson]

I need to get to Europe...


How would you fellas rate the great links courses by:

1) Architecture (shot values, variety, quality of play in a variety of weather conditions, balance between originality/quirk and traditional design elements )?
2) Setting (natural beauty, manufactured beauty, number of visible nuclear reactors and sewage treatment plants, history of the course/club)?
3) Pragmatism (bang for your buck, accessibilty to the public, geographical remoteness)?

[Sean_A]

There are easily 20 other links courses I'd rather play again than Birkdale.

You knew, didn't you, that someone would ask for a list of those 20?  To save anyone else that bother, I'll ask you.

I'm guessing the list will include:  Dornoch, North Berwick, Machrihanish, Prestwick, Cruden Bay, RND, Brancaster, Saunton, Burnham & Berrow, St Enodoc, Deal and Silloth.

I'm pretty sure it won't include Seaton Carew

Mark

You must be joking.  Burnham doesn't feature with Doak.  I think he gave it a 5.  IMO he missed the mark - its more a 7 than a 6.

Ciao  

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Another UK course I'll have to live with being wrong about.  I love Burnham.  At least a 6 in my book.

Mark

[Tim Pitner]

Maybe it's the calm weather the last few Opens at St. Andrews or maybe it's Tiger's unquestioned dominance there, but I wonder whether TOC is well-suited to host the Open in July.  This may be heresy, but I'd rather watch an Open at Muirfield or Royal St. George's or even Royal Lytham.  TOC seems to have too many driveable par 4s and not enough trouble.  It's a much different (and more interesting) course in October when they play the Dunhill Links there.

I realize this thread was asking about personal playing preferences rather than the courses' suitability for hosting the Open, but I wondered whether anyone else was somewhat disappointed in TOC as an Open site.  

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