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Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Except for caddies and those infernal GPS systems on golf carts we golfers only have a general idea of the distance to the pin or carry a bunker or stream.  Now we can know down to the yard how far things are.  I grew up playing on courses that didn't even have a 150 yard "bush" until I was in my teens.  I still can tell to within five yards or so how far something is.  My son can't tell even to within fifteen yards.  More and more I see players using some kind of distance measurer.  

Will this cause architects to try and disguise distances more.  I realize they do it even now to a certain extent now.  Will the have to use their wiles even more?  For instance create more slope so that balls will run further or shorter than the true distance in the air.  will they resort to more blind or semi-blind shots?  

Or will things stay pretty much the same?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Kavanaugh

Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 07:56:38 PM »
I think quite the opposite.  I can see fewer blind holes in our future as architects realize that the time it takes ranger rick to triangulate his distance to the hole is prohibitive.  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 07:58:15 PM by John Kavanaugh »

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 08:07:02 PM »
On the amateur level it shouldn't make a significant difference except at the highest levels;USAM,NCAA. The typical 15 handicapper may know the distance to an inch that doesn't mean they can pull off the shot . If architects resort to camoflage techniques so be it -who wouldn't welcome more Mackenzie like designs.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2007, 08:18:10 PM »
If architects resort to camoflage techniques so be it -who wouldn't welcome more Mackenzie like designs.

Me for one.  Please name one instance where Mackenzie instituted a camoflage technique that still exists today in its original configuration.  More unmaintainable, expensive to maintain, fluff for the ego of the architect bunkers is the last thing the game of today needs.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2007, 08:30:38 PM »
John, Just because you don't seem to personally care for his camo techniques doesn't mean it's bad for the game ,obviously sand maintenance can be an issue-I'm interested to get out to Pasatiempo later this year to see how the experts have restored this gem,played it some 15 years ago. After I play it I can make a thumbs up or down.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2007, 08:32:34 PM »
John, are you saying that distance finders will not have an impact on future designs?
I'm not even saying they will.  I am just wondering>
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Kavanaugh

Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2007, 08:32:46 PM »
There is no camo at Pasa.  Perhaps you confuse Mack with Ross or Raynor.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 08:35:41 PM »
John, are you saying that distance finders will not have an impact on future designs?
I'm not even saying they will.  I am just wondering>

I am saying they will have a negative impact as ranger rick demands a clear view of the hole and hazards so he can shoot his distances while standing next to his cart.

Mark Manuel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 08:39:13 PM »
Even with a range finder or GPS a well designed shouldn't change.  Knowing the yardage doesn't make the risk and reward of a well designed green any easier or harder.  

A very interesting question, but I would hope that an architect would not walk a property wondering how a range finder will affect play.  A great layout is a great layout regardless.
The golf ball is like a woman, you have to talk it on the off chance it might listen.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 11:12:24 PM »
Even with a range finder or GPS a well designed shouldn't change.  Knowing the yardage doesn't make the risk and reward of a well designed green any easier or harder.  

A very interesting question, but I would hope that an architect would not walk a property wondering how a range finder will affect play.  A great layout is a great layout regardless.

With square grooves, pro-vi s, soft greens, greens a lot easier to hold even for the average player.

What about hazards or bunkers?  Maybe the ground should play more of a role in "gathering" the ball into a stream of bunker.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 11:22:30 PM »

At Prestwick this year - a guy we were with insisted on using a rangefinder - I don't think the caddies liked it.

When we got to the Himalayas hole (par three over a mountain) he asked the caddies for a yardage.

The reply was priceless- " why don't you use your machine superman?"

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 11:35:57 PM »
No!

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 08:44:07 PM »
I don't think distance finders will or should change course design.  They speed up (hopefully) the process of gathering distance information and making club selection.  But these tools don't have much more effect than sprinkler head yardages and pin sheets do.  The golfer still has to factor in elevation changes, lie, and wind and then actually execute the shot.  Those are more difficult than gathering yardage info.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 10:44:06 PM »
I suspect it may not have any obvious affects but I can't help but wonder if it won't cause architects to look for more ways to disguise distances.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matt_Sullivan

Re:Will distance finders change the way golf courses are designed?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2008, 04:42:25 AM »
I don't see range finders having a big effect on design. So much effects the distance we hit the ball: elevation changes (real and perceived), the lie, wind, the temperature, our physical condition, our mental condition, our ball striking ability that day etc etc. And then there's the design elements -- make sure you carry the front bunker, or watch out for that drop off over the back, need to cut it into that front flag etc.

I used a range finder for a year or two but haven't for the past 12 months. Knowing the exact distance to the pin (and perhaps more importantly other hazards, the back of the green etc) is good, but even when I knew it was 137 yards to the flag I didn't always hit a 9 iron. And sometimes I would hit an 8 iron into the back bunker because it looked uphill, or because I wanted to make sure I got on to the back tier, or because I misjudged the wind, or the lie.

It's a hard game. The rangefinder doesn't make it much easier. It made no real difference to my scores during the period I used it; although if used properly it should make you play faster.

There's still plenty of opportunity for the architect, Mother Nature and the Golf Gods to screw with us

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