[Kirk Gill]

C&C of course found 1100? holes for Sand Hills which they whittled down to 18 and didn't make excuses. They did not depend on the cart to carry you between holes, but still the found the best holes.

Very true, but didn't the holes they chose actually go outside the (considerable) boundaries of the originally-purchased property, necessitating the purchase of additional land? Not to nitpick, but they were obviously in search of the IDEAL routing, and went to substantial lengths to obtain it. They had a great bit of property, and naturally wanted to maximize it. That said, they do allow carts there, no?

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

To be honest, I've never measured the total walking distance of our courses that accurately ... I only pay attention to the individual green-to-tee walks, and whether there are more than a couple of longer ones.

And, obviously, whether you are going up and down hills makes a big difference, too.

But, I suspect you are right that once you get near 5 miles on the straight and narrow, the course would be perceived as tiring to walk unless it was very flat.

Which tees were you using to measure the walk?  On some courses, back tees require extra hiking back, but the middle tees are an easy walk ... on newer courses, the back tee is the closest to the last green, but everybody has to walk the entire 7500+ yards.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

For the most part, especially on the modern courses, everyone had to walk past all of the tees regardless if they were playing them or not. Of the golden age courses, I noticed that the back tees weren't much farther back with the big exception of ANGC.

Overall while measuring I at least went back to the blue tee boxes and often to the back tee boxes. So I think the numbers provided are pretty good distance minimums because the vast majority of golfers will zag zag across the fairways and greens.  If I had to take a guess this would add perhaps another 1/4 to 1/2 mile of walking during the course of the round.

Even though this was far from being a truly random or sceintific experiment, I was not expecting these distances to be so similar (~4.5), that is of the courses that were built with walking not carting in mind.

[ed_getka]

Kalen,
   If you have time I am curious to know how long the Princeville Prince course is in Hawaii. I insisted on walking it years ago, when I was in triathlon shape, and I was practically passing out by the 15th tee. There are some long walks there, plus you are constantly going down into ravines and hiking back out again. Throw in heat and humidity and I began to understand why the guy in the pro shop was so adamant about walking being a bad idea.

[Kalen Braley]

Mike:

Here is the aerial of Lakewood as promised.

[mike_beene]

Thanks Kalen.Picture must have been taken in a Feb or Nov when the fairways were either going dormant or greening.I know the course is tight,but when you look at this there is not any wasted space.It is just over 6700 yards,but the hills make it play a little longer(and 3 of the par 3s are over 200 yards)Since there is not enough out of bounds,the left of 17 is staked with an in course out of bounds,and the area behind 11 and 18 is ob as well.So stay in bounds and never ,never be above a hole and its not to hard.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,
   If you have time I am curious to know how long the Princeville Prince course is in Hawaii. I insisted on walking it years ago, when I was in triathlon shape, and I was practically passing out by the 15th tee. There are some long walks there, plus you are constantly going down into ravines and hiking back out again. Throw in heat and humidity and I began to understand why the guy in the pro shop was so adamant about walking being a bad idea.

Ed,

That must have been a monstorous chore.  I've only played the course on my xbox 360, and in that game, the elevation change is massive.  So I mapped it using google, and followed the paths you would have to walk to go around the barrancas and so forth and it came out to 6.1 miles...which is absolutly insane given all of the elevation change.

Kalen

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