[Chris Burgard]

Karl Litten at PGA National??

[Tom_Doak]

Congratulation, Chris, that is the winning answer:

"They're the Fab Four of golf course design ... Nicklaus, Palmer, Fazio and Litten."

I couldn't make up something like that.

[Art Roselle]

PGA National in Palm Beach?  Karl Litten?

[Art Roselle]

Drat.  Too slow as usual.

[Doug Ralston]

And I woulda guessed Hurdzan, Ault, Hills, and Liddy. *shrug*

Doug

[Chris Burgard]

I was looking at their website last year before a trip to Florida.

They outline how many holes have water hazards on each course as part of the summary on each:

Most Challenging Hole: No. 8
Most Scenic Hole: No. 5
Total Number of Sand Bunkers: 80
Number of Water Hazards: 18 out of 18 holes
Acreage of Course: 120
Average Size of Greens: 6,300 square feet

[cary lichtenstein]

Who is Litten? and what has he done of note?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Karl Litten seems to be a busy guy. A limited search comes up with over 30 courses and in a few different countries.

I've played a couple, a really enjoyable one is Twisted Oaks in Beverly Hills Fl., s. west of Ocala, near Black Diamond. Some good holes, with a wide open roller coaster of a par 5 18th. The green is snuggled into a hillside on a diagonal to the fwy., and well protected. Actually, there is quite a bit of elevation change around the whole course. Feels more like the Carolinas than Fl.

[Tom_Doak]

Cary:

Karl Litten was Gary Player's design partner for a few years -- in the 1990's I believe.  I don't know much about his solo work.  He did build the first big course in Dubai.

[David Stamm]

JMorg,

Stu Sutcliffe was an artist buddy of John's, if my memory serves correctly. Lennon wanted him in the band - as a bass/guitar player - but Stu wasn't a very good musician.

Enter Harrison.  

Jeff, you are correct about Stu's role with the band. However, Harrison was already with them. They were playing as a 5 piece band. After Stu left and decided to stay with Astrid Kircherr, whom Stu had fallen in love with and who photographed alot of the pics that we see from their early days, neither George nor John wanted to play the bass. The task then fell to Paul and the rest was history.


John Kirk, the "going loony" story about John at Shea was a bit of a tall tale. Paul in later years had said that John thought it was hilarious to be able to mumble and jumble the words and add lib and no one would notice because the crowd was so loud. It was at this point that the band realized that the crowds were there more for seeing them then listening to them. Hence their last show in the US came at Candlestick Park. The band also stated later that they knew that the type of music they were about to embark on would never translate well on a live stage, so there wasn't any point to continue with touring. They also said that this was by design as well. They just didn't want to do it anymore the way they had been. It was at this stage that the early versions of music videos were born, another innovation by the boys from Liverpool.

[Steve Okula]

JMorg,

Stu Sutcliffe was an artist buddy of John's, if my memory serves correctly. Lennon wanted him in the band - as a bass/guitar player - but Stu wasn't a very good musician.

Enter Harrison.  

Jeff, you are correct about Stu's role with the band. However, Harrison was already with them. They were playing as a 5 piece band. After Stu left and decided to stay with Astrid Kircherr, whom Stu had fallen in love with and who photographed alot of the pics that we see from their early days, neither George nor John wanted to play the bass. The task then fell to Paul and the rest was history.

About 8 or 10 years ago, there was a movie made about the early Beatles and Stu Sutcliffe,  shot in black and white for atmosphere, I guess. It's called "Backbeat". Look for it in the video rentals, I enjoyed it.

[David Stamm]

I am so impressed here with the knowledge of the Fab Four by some of the younger members.

Great music is great music. I was raised on the Beatles, Lynn. And I'm grateful for it.




   Be careful because Pete Best was not a very good drummer.

You're correct, he sure wasn't. He lasted as long as he did because the girls went nuts for him.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Your knowledge is spot on.
One very minor error,
It is Astrid Kirchherr
not Kircherr.

[David Stamm]

Your knowledge is spot on.
One very minor error,
It is Astrid Kirchherr
not Kircherr.

Sorry, I've never been the world's best typist.

[David Stamm]

Sorry, I couldn't resist ... this was the tag line for a multi-course golf resort in an ad in a golf magazine I just received.

I'm betting no one can guess who's Ringo unless they have noticed the same ad.  Guesses on the Fab Four are welcome.  Hint:  it's not Kidd, Doak, Coore and Crenshaw, or Macdonald.

So Tom, does it mention a Yoko and subsequent demise of the group!

[Ray Richard]

I had the pleasure of working with Karl Litten during the mid 1980's at White Cliffs-an executive course in Plymouth,Ma-Karl was in partnership with Gary Player and Jim Applegate was the GM of Gary Player Design. Karl's nephew is Jeffrey Myers-a member of ASGCA. He also worked with Ron Kirby for a while.
At the time he had built a bunch of courses in South Florida, including two in Boca Raton.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Didn't Litten and Tom Walker work on some courses together?

[Jay Flemma]

Congratulation, Chris, that is the winning answer:

"They're the Fab Four of golf course design ... Nicklaus, Palmer, Fazio and Litten."

I couldn't make up something like that.

That's almost as bad as turning stone's claiming that Atunyote is "Fazio's Northern Augusta."

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