[Rick Phelps]

Kind of ironic that this topic is what made me come out from underground!

[Matt_Cohn]

tombstones.

worst. tee markers. ever.    

[Rob_Waldron]

What better way to introduce visitors to American History than building 36 holes of golf at Valley Forge Park. The golf course would provide visitors the opportunity to explore all of the "Nooks and Crannies" that the property has to offer as opposed to the limited access it provides now. The huts could be converted to overnight accomodations, caddie shacks and snack bars!

Valley Forge Park could pump $$ into the local economy if re-developed into a destination Golf/History/Resort. Brilliant!

[John Kavanaugh]

John, you may be on to something big -- but you have it all backwards.  For all of the struggling golf courses in the US, why not let them start selling plots?  A whole new revenue stream!  As long as there are no tombstones or any other markers to disturb play.

How may of you would like to rest in peace at your favorite course?  How much would it be worth to you to reserve that special spot?

Hmmmm...

I can see this being sold to a municipality as a dual use profit center for a new project.  Selling the plots will finance the purchase of the land and building of the course while greenfees maintain it.  The only slight problem would be playing through the funerals...At least I can still dress in black and demand silence.  The combination clubhouse/funeral home also has many possibilities.  Dress code will be inforced.

[Jeffrey Prest]

Oh all right then. I was going to rail against this thread but you've finally got me thinking.

My contribution - goodbye sand, hello ash.

If we're going to be sick, we might as well be really sick.


[Anyone with 'Tiger Woods Golf 2000' on his PC, by the way, will find Cemetary [sic] Hills available at coursedownloads.com - headstones by the 18th, if I remember rightly]

[John Kavanaugh]

You guys are losing focus on the attempts to turn our National Parks into golf courses.  Parks are already an excellent use of land enjoyed by millions of visitors each year.  Golf courses and cemeteries are both specialized uses that appeal to a small segment of society.  The golf corpse simply increases the use of urban land where it is economically feasable to satisfy both parties.

[Mike Lacey]

There is a little 9 hole course at the Jersey Shore, Heritage Links, that has been constructed somewhat in the spirit of John's suggestion.  The course is routed around the Corson family grave plot.  From recollection, the Corsons, of Corson's Inlet fame, were whalers and some of the earliest settlers to the area.  Some of the graves were late 17th/early 18th centry as I recall.  

Unfortunately, the gravesites are on the slice side of two holes and not entirely out of play for the lesser skilled golfers that populate the place.  The tombstones are becoming worse for the wear because of it.  

A little spooky, I must admit.  

[CHrisB]

I like the ash bunkers idea, but it's probably better to go with smaller pot bunkers--no telling how many people it would take to make one of those long Pete Dye fairway waste bunkers.

I tell ya, country clubs and cemeteries are the biggest wasters of prime real estate! Dead people? They don't want to be buried nowadays. Ecology, right? Ask Wang. He'll tell you. We just bought property behind the Great Wall. On the good side!--Al Czervik

[Doug Wright]

Kind of ironic that this topic is what made me come out from underground!

Rick,

I was thinking that same thing! Welcome back.

PS Antler Creek is well done...

[John Kavanaugh]

Speaking of Wrigley.  Do they take up the grass each winter because when I was on the field last year it didn't feel like bermuda.  It is brown as hell as of now...must be dirt.

[Adam Clayman]

Back 20 years ago my friend Edward Placha had a similar idea. Only the other day I was sitting around the clubhouse at West Winds and a local mortician was talking about this exact thing. 178 from old Bud Herbal, etc.
Eddie's idea incorporated a special club, where members who joined would also be buried on or near one of their favorites spots on the GC. How much would members have payed to join?
BTW, Edward has also published the golf song we used to sing/make-up back in that era. It will be available on I-tunes soon.

[Steve Burrows]

Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis is a perfect site for a golf course.  I have always thought so.  It's a bit over 500 acres, the ground rolls wonderfully (and peaks with spectacular view at the top of hill that is the site of Indiana poet James Whitcomb Riley's tomb) and every tree is a potentially a specimen worth saving.  Corridors could certainly be found to best utilize this land, maybe even for 36 holes, huh?

So, apart from the fact that there are close to 200,000 people who have been buried there since 1864, I'm sure it's a prime location for golf.  No one would be too upset, would they?

[Kirk Gill]

Respecting the dead is all a matter of perspective. If you died on the Titanic, then your watery grave is considered to be inviolable, and you should be allowed to rest in peace. If you were an Egyptian pharaoh, then your mummified remains are on display to the paying public. They might even go on tour.

But as for golf courses, construction of a new course might be stopped completely if an Indian burial ground is discovered (there was an interesting thread on this subject here some time back). It's hard to imagine construction ever starting when the existence of a burial ground is a given.

[Michael Dugger]

Legend has it the 18th at St. Andrews resides upon dead folks.

[Dan Kelly]

From what I've seen of it, Lakewood Cemetery in Minneapolis has beautifully rolling parkland for golf.

You can see Minikahda from there, straight across Lake Calhoun.

[Patrick Kiser]

They at least not only moved the tombstones but also the corpses to Colma before they turned it the 18th fairway (or was it the 17th).

Name the course.

[Robert_Walker]

A cemetery would be a great place for a golf course for those who are annoyed by cell phone usage and golf. I can't think of a larger dead zone.

[Andrew Balakshin]

The Delhi golf club is actually built on a very large old burial ground. There are still tombs dotted all over the property which are very remarkable in their own right (Holes 4,7,14, and 17 in particular). I would imagine that the British had little respect for the site when they built the course, and therefore destroyed many of the ruins. They obviously have skewed morals to this day since they made one of the tombs into a pool shack.

The golf course is really good but is in dire need of a serious tree removal program. Besides the very good golf course, the tombs are some of the best I have seen. The only way to see the tombs however is to play a round. So perhaps this is a good way to persuade a non-golfing partner to go for a round on vacation.

There is also a GCA lurker doing some reno work on the course in preparation for an upcoming international tournament with some big names apparently. The renos looked good so far.

[Brad Klein]

Big issue for cemeteries, like golf courses, is drainage, drainage, drainage. By the way, JK, Donald Ross' first long term design associate, Water Hatch, trained in civil engineering at UMass and then designed cemeteries in southern New England before Ross discovered him (probably on Halloween) and hired him for golf.

[John Kavanaugh]

My wife and I have been discussing this topic at great length since her sister is married to a funeral director.  We get past the day time funerals by building a 19 hole course and not burying anyone during the day on the 13th hole.  As funerals occur on holes such as 7 or 1 the course is simply adjusted for play on 13 so we continue to have an 18 hole course.  The finacial boom in this idea is that plots are sold on the 13th for the segment in society who would prefer a night funeral...at a premium no less.

[Bruce Katona]

In all practical nature, this is easily accomplished construction similar to building on an existing capped landfill: all work must be done above the existing grade, meaning this requires a large amount of imported fill material to doing your shaping and contouring.  All drainage, irrigation, contouring, etc. would be placed on fill brought in to shape the course above the existing grade.  No cuts of any kind would be allowed as to not disturb the perpetual inahbitants.

Marketing the new facility and capturing a repeat customer base would be a very different matter.

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