[John Kavanaugh]

A new standard for greatness...A hole that is even more fun to watch being played than to play.  I'd lose the aiming rock but understand the need of a security blanket for the paying customer.  I believe any artificial aiming device should be banned if its primary purpose is solely for aiming.  Minus the rock we would have the finest modern hole ever built.  It played about 180 downhill into a slight breeze.  I have no idea how the balls responded to landing short, long, left or right because it is as blind as blind can be...I do know we hit four differering tee shots and made four pars.  A hole both better and worse than the 17th at Sawgrass.

[John Kavanaugh]

Does a hole at NGLA provide an artificial aiming device at a blind shot?

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

Just wanted to let you know that I'm enjoying your series on Erin Hills and appreciate you taking the time to post it.

It has certainly increased my interest in getting out there.

[CHrisB]

I also loved the hole. A completely different twist on blindness--normally you are hitting blind over something (hill, trees, etc.) but here you are hitting blind down into something (the valley). And practically no chance of a lost ball.

I was a little surprised and a little disappointed that people like Tom Doak and Brad Klein, whose opinions I appreciate, disliked the hole so much.

I'd be interested to know if anyone who dislikes this hole still likes the Dell Hole at Lahinch, and if so, what makes the diffference for them.

[Mike McGuire]

Some may not be aware that you walk right by the dell green when you are playing #6, so the aiming rock is not really needed.

It builds a little anticipation and you can catch a look of shots from the group in front of you bouncing around.....

[John Kavanaugh]

Does a hole at NGLA provide an artificial aiming device at a blind shot?

Yes.  The Alps.  The coolest hole I've ever played.

What possible excuse do they have for the pole?

[Rob_Waldron]

John

Is it true that there is consideration being given to the installation of a periscope?

[John Kavanaugh]

John

Is it true that there is consideration being given to the installation of a periscope?

I spoke to no one at the club about anything except what was on the menu.  I would prefer a video system like was installed at Brian Gracely's course.  A small hidden camera and a monitor on the tee for safety reasons.

[Rob_Waldron]

Brilliant! Although the periscope would provide a bit of novelty. Of course you can always use your Sky Caddy to locate the hole position.

I thought the video system with the cameras in the Women's locker room were very effective. Particularly when shown in HD on the 50" Plasma in the Men's Locker Room.

[Phil McDade]

A bell for the Dell?

On a course that has generally provoked strong opinions, does any hole generate more than this one?

[John Kavanaugh]

Brilliant! Although the periscope would provide a bit of novelty. Of course you can always use your Sky Caddy to locate the hole position.

I think it would have to be a huge periscope.  I was more interested in providing a safety valve so you don't hit someone on the green.  Currently they use a bell which is far from failproof,  but quaint.

[John Kavanaugh]

A bell for the Dell?

On a course that has generally provoked strong opinions, does any hole generate more than this one?

Just wait for the bye hole thread.

[Kalen Braley]

John,

These threads have been enjoyable as Mike pointed out.

What would you say is the most difficult aspect to the hole?  Figuring out the Line?  Distance?  I'm assuming you can play long and have it roll back as well as play short and have it kick forward.

Any pics of the hole?  I recall seeing one months ago, but its a bit hazy as I recall it now.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

These threads have been enjoyable as Mike pointed out.

What would you say is the most difficult aspect to the hole?  Figuring out the Line?  Distance?  I'm assuming you can play long and have it roll back as well as play short and have it kick forward.

Any pics of the hole?  I recall seeing one months ago, but its a bit hazy as I recall it now.

Scratch the video or periscope idea as it would give an unfair advantage to those who hit last.  The line was simple...you just hit it straight over the rock like I did.  The distance is what is interesting in that I ended up on the back of the green in the fringe and have zero idea how I got there considering I hit one more club than anyone else,  I might have hit short and bounced forward or hit long and bounced back...I really do not know.

If you want to know what the hole looks like simply fold your forefinger over your thumb and hold it up to the window.  Now hit the ball over your fingernail and you have it.

[Jim Franklin]

I also loved this hole and agree that they should toss the rock. As Mike mentioned, you walk right by the hole on the previous hole. I was actually disappointed the rock was there because I made sure I looked at the flag walking past.

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Thanks for the description, that gave me a good visual.

So its kind of like a "taco-dell" hole then..  

[John Kavanaugh]

I also loved the hole. A completely different twist on blindness--normally you are hitting blind over something (hill, trees, etc.) but here you are hitting blind down into something (the valley). And practically no chance of a lost ball.

I was a little surprised and a little disappointed that people like Tom Doak and Brad Klein, whose opinions I appreciate, disliked the hole so much.

I'd be interested to know if anyone who dislikes this hole still likes the Dell Hole at Lahinch, and if so, what makes the diffference for them.

Could someone please link me to where Doak or Klein bashed the Erin Hills Dell hole.

[Dan Moore]

Here are some photos of the Dell from jason Blasbergs thread earler this year.  I like the green but I'm underwhelmed by the tee shot.  

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=29632;start=msg573479

[Kalen Braley]

I also loved the hole. A completely different twist on blindness--normally you are hitting blind over something (hill, trees, etc.) but here you are hitting blind down into something (the valley). And practically no chance of a lost ball.

I was a little surprised and a little disappointed that people like Tom Doak and Brad Klein, whose opinions I appreciate, disliked the hole so much.

I'd be interested to know if anyone who dislikes this hole still likes the Dell Hole at Lahinch, and if so, what makes the diffference for them.

Could someone please link me to where Doak or Klein bashed the Erin Hills Dell hole.

Here you go John:

http://www.chicagopublicgolf.com/2007/03/23/potential-erin-hills-roadtrip-squashed/

The quote:

"..and the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.

[Jason Mandel]

The Dell hole is what it is in my opinion.  It's a decent hole, that is viewed by many here as "cool" because of its blindness and quirk.

Besides the fact that it is blind, I don't think its all that special of a hole.  Shivas is right when he says you see the hole when coming up on 6.

I think the course is super solid, but goes overboard a little on the gimmicky features, ie. 2 green and the "dell" hole.  

I'm waiting for the discussion of 9, which I thought was a spectacular hole...

[John Kavanaugh]

"..and the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.

We all make jokes that we regret...I think it is time to let this one go.

[Kalen Braley]

JK,

Agreed.  From what I've seen on the course it looks interesting from a quirk basis, and I love quirk on the golf course.

From what I can tell in the pics, perhaps the hole could have been enchanced if they set it at a 45 degree angle to the golfers view instead of a completely blind 90 degrees.  In this way not only would they be able to make sure the green is clear but also be able to see some of the fun of thier ball bouncing around in the taco...errr I mean green complex.      

And a rear pin would still be mostly blind and the angles would make for some interesting shots.  IIRC, the original Dell hole is set at an angle to the golfers line of sight to the hole.

[CHrisB]

JK,

Here is Tom Doak's quote from a thread he started on blind holes, http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=30724

But the hole that got me thinking about this topic is the Dell hole at Erin Hills.  Lots of people have opined in favor of it just because it's blind, and lots of others hate it because it's blind.  To me, it's possibly the most disappointing blind hole I've ever seen.  There's nothing to hit over ... you just aim at a rock on a flat horizon and the shot goes down from there to a valley green.  To name it after the Dell at Lahinch is ridiculous.

Of course, I disagree, and think that a blind shot down and into something instead of over something is entirely different and refreshing.

[Eric_Terhorst]

I haven't played the original Dell, maybe I wouldn't like it either, but this one didn't do much for me.

Seems to me the designers Try Real Hard to make you think you're experiencing Something Truly Exciting, and then it turns out to be just banal.  

It reminds me of the Peter Allis quote about the streaker at the Open Championship  "What a lot of fuss about a little thing like that"

[Doug Siebert]

John,

There is a long tradition of aiming rocks or poles on Scottish and Irish holes where there is a blind shot.  So if you want to blame someone, blame Prestwick or whatever course did it first, not Erin Hills or NGLA.

If you got rid of the aiming rock then the line would be "a little bit right of the closest tree".  Would you then say they should cut down that tree because it helps you aim?  Maybe they should cut down all the trees you can see from that tee, and flatten the hills and remove any other features that might help a golfer aim his tee shot?  Oh, and you better ban Strokesavers too, because I've actually used them successfully to figure out where I want to aim based on their drawings and distance markings!

I occasionally hit some extremely wild drives, so I'm pretty experienced with hitting shots where I have to pick a spot on the hilltop in front of me or a treetop or the top of a building or when all else fails a cloud or blade of grass or even the angle of my shadow.  Having to figure out my line like that is usually more accurate than using an aiming rock anyway, because I can compensate for where the pin is, where I want my misses to go, etc.  But it takes me extra time to play a shot like that because I have to walk far enough to see what I can't see from my ball and then get my line figured out.

I've found that those aiming rocks aren't always aimed where I'd aim if I had all the information myself, especially on tee shots.  But without an aiming rock there I'd either hit totally blind the first time or if I had time I'd jog out to about where it is so I could see the green and then find myself something to line up with.  So how exactly would getting rid of the aiming rock help?  The game isn't more pure, or more challenging, but it might be slower.

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