[Garland Bayley]

This is not a taco shell.




This is a taco shell.



I must say that from pictures the hole at EH does not look like much of a golf hole. About as blase' as one can get.

[Bart Bradley]

Huck,

How is the original Dell hole oreinted to the line of sight by the golfer.  Meaning at EH, it appears to be set at a 90 degree angle to the line of the golfer.  Is the entire green at the original Dell hole completely blind?

Kalen:

My picture of the Dell in Lahinch...you can see approx 10% of the green.... the two people in view are on the visible right corner of the green... Hope this helps...Bart

[Kalen Braley]

Bart,

Excellent pic, thanks for putting that up.

Having seen the golfers view from the tee on this hole and the one at EH, I think this one works better.  It gives the player a sneak peak of sorts and the backdrop of dunes seems to gives a better context of what the golfers is about to emark on.

In the pic of EH, there aren't any reference points other than the rock when you are on the tee.  Yes, a sneak peak can be seen from the 6th, but the tee shot still seems visually dull.

[Garland Bayley]

Face is folks, the Dell at EH is mediocre at best. If the brow were shaved to give a view of the green, everyone would say it is a terrible hole.

[Bill Gayne]

There pix suggest that there is something about this course which doesn't quite settle right with me.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  Perhaps the look of the course reminds me a bit of farmland - not particularly appealing to me.  Anybody else get a "something ain't quite right" feeling about Erin Hills?

Ciao  

Sean, I'm with you that what I've seen in photographs this golf course is not appealing. What I don't like in the picture below is that the green surrounds are void of any shape or irregularity. It looks like its been graded to have any undulation removed.



Looking at the green surrounds of the original Dell hole it looks like it was just mowed out between a couple of dunes which it was. Looking at the surrounding dunes despite being covered marran grass you can see the odd knob or depression in the land that provides the randomness that is found at Lahinch.



Judging by the pictures, I think the idea that this hole somehow represents the Lahinch Dell in look or play is a farce.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill...Is the front of the green on the left or the right?  I have said it before, these pictures suck.  Would you have preferred if the architect had built in artificial shape or irregularity.  Do you have a problem with glaciers?

[Bill Gayne]

John, I think the front of the EH green is to the left. I don't have any problems with glaciers. In this case the land left behind for golf doesn't look to exciting in these pictures.

[Garland Bayley]

Bill...Is the front of the green on the left or the right?  I have said it before, these pictures suck.  Would you have preferred if the architect had built in artificial shape or irregularity.  Do you have a problem with glaciers?

I would have a problem with glaciers on my land. I wouldn't want them to mess up the work of the Missoula floods. Although, if they could scrape out Aloha clay, it might be a bonus.

[John Kavanaugh]

John, I think the front of the EH green is to the left. I don't have any problems with glaciers. In this case the land left behind for golf doesn't look to exciting in these pictures.

What the hell is wrong with you people.  The land this course sits on it undisputably fantastic.  No matter what you think about the architects you can not dispute the land.  Brad Klein makes one off the cuff stupid joke in a stupid off the cuff article and you guys fall right in line.  I know the intent of Brad's article and that is was all in good fun but I think it is time for him to come on this site and straighten things out.  There are too many fools following his folly.

[Bill Gayne]

John, I think the front of the EH green is to the left. I don't have any problems with glaciers. In this case the land left behind for golf doesn't look to exciting in these pictures.

What the hell is wrong with you people.  The land this course sits on it undisputably fantastic.  No matter what you think about the architects you can not dispute the land.  Brad Klein makes one off the cuff stupid joke in a stupid off the cuff article and you guys fall right in line.  I know the intent of Brad's article and that is was all in good fun but I think it is time for him to come on this site and straighten things out.  There are too many fools following his folly.

I haven't read Brad Klien's article but maybe he has it correct.

[John Kavanaugh]

He did not write an article...he told a joke.  I think Brad has earned the right to tell jokes...I just think he may has miscalculated the ability of his minions to be able to tell the difference between a joke and reality.

[Kalen Braley]

He did not write an article...he told a joke.  I think Brad has earned the right to tell jokes...I just think he may has miscalculated the ability of his minions to be able to tell the difference between a joke and reality.

John,

It wasn't just limited to the Taco-dell hole though.  He had much more critical things to say about the course other than this.

If it means anything to you John, so far from what I've seen, the course looks interesting and I would love to play it when/if I make it to that neck of the woods.  My only comparison was against the original Dell hole which IMO appears to be a much more interesting hole than the version at EH. Thats it, it nothing more than that.  

[Bill Gayne]

He did not write an article...he told a joke.  I think Brad has earned the right to tell jokes...I just think he may has miscalculated the ability of his minions to be able to tell the difference between a joke and reality.

Sorry I missed the joke. I always enjoy a good laugh.

[Garland Bayley]

" …the routing is a mess, in large part because Whitten insisted on moving no dirt at all-thereby taking trendy “minimalism” to its absurd extreme.", Brad Klein.

Wow, I missed it John! That is absolutely hilarious. I can't imagine how I missed the humor the first time I read it.

"…much of the bunkering is overexcavated and unmaintainable.", Brad Klein

Man he is really killing me now. I can hardly stand it. I hope he has more funnies.

"…and the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.", Brad Klein

That's it, if there were a Pulitzer or Nobel for humor, Brad would win it hands down for this article.

Thanks for the enlightenment John.

[Tim Bert]

Has anyone on this site played both Erin Hills and Long Shadow?  I'de be interested in an assessment of EH #7 vs. LS #17.

If you've played both, then in your opinion...
Which is the better golf hole?
Which is the more original idea?
Which is more fun to play?

[Jason Mandel]

Tim,

I've played both Longshadow and Erin Hills.

a.  17 at Longshadow is a better hole
b.  they are both equally original.  I think mike had to be partially inspired by some of mike strantz stuff with that green and obviously the erin hills team called it the "dell" with inspiration from lahinch.
c.  17 at Longshadow without a shadow of a doubt is more fun to play...  the green at 7 at erin hills is just nothing special while 17 at longshadow, or "crabcake" as mike young has renamed it is a ton of fun.


Overall though, I think we're comparing maybe the best hole at Long Shadow, or at least one of the best, with probably one of the worst holes at Erin Hills.


Jason

[Adam Clayman]

JB, Dick Daley is not one of Brad's Minions.
How do you explain his self-made opinions?

[George Pazin]

Those photos show just how subjective almost everything associated with gca is - I think the hole looks pretty natural (dont forget, photos tend to smooth everything out) and like a lot of fun to play, judging by those photos.

* EDIT: A big thank you to everyone who provided photos and diagrams.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm afraid the EH hole just doesn't look very interesting.  There's a far better "different" Dell hole at Bamburgh Castle, where the 14th hole is in a blind dell but plays uphill and has a far mor interesting looking green than that photo of the EH Dell hole.

[John Kavanaugh]

JB, Dick Daley is not one of Brad's Minions.
How do you explain his self-made opinions?

Has Dick even played Erin Hills?  I don't recall his feelings.

Even I am a minion of Brad and have to fight not to fall under his spell.  I went into Erin Hills with many preconceived notions based on what I have heard from other people.  I always put huge weight on the opinions that Brad expresses.  I also knew in this case the context of Brad's comments and took them for what they are.  I think Erin Hills is a special case for everyone on this board who plays the course.  Let me list just a few of the things that make it difficult to for me to know the difference between what I do feel and what I want to feel.

My brother is great friends with Dana Fry so it pains me to say anything bad in public about the course.

The cat fight between Brad and Ron over Gillette Ridge/Wintonberry makes me want to love the course.

The fact that Lane did not choose Doak when he had done a previous routing makes me want to love the course.

The poor remarks about number one by Shivas and Childs made me want to love the hole.

The hatred of the USGA by most of this board makes me want to love the course.

In other words I went into this course wanting to love it and knowing that I would either say good things about it on this site or say nothing at all.  I don't think I am the only person on this site that goes into courses either wanting to love them or hate them and thus putting the pirate patch over which eye we choose.  I am a minion too...I might be an anti-minion but a minion non-the-less.  Will he without minionism please stand up.

btw...I really do think that I love the course and I try to make a point of not lying to myself.

[Dan Moore]

Here is what Ron Whitten had to say on the Dell Hole in his August Golf Digest article.  Seems like his collaborators were not as enamored with the Dell hole as he was.  

"I also insisted on some cross bunkers, and, most controversially, a blind par 3, the Dell hole. Mike, Dana and Bob kept pooh-poohing the idea, but with every routing, I insisted the Dell hole stay. There's now a white directional rock with my name painted on it to commemorate my stubbornness. But once Mike Davis mentioned to Bob that he wasn't sure a blind par 3 would work in a U.S. Open, Bob made us spruce up a little downhill bye hole (fit between the 9th and 10th) into a nasty little, heavily bunkered, tricky green par 3 meant to substitute if the Dell hole is deemed unfair for true professionals who must see everything and imagine nothing."  

[Brendan Dolan]

I've played the hole about 20 times or so and it is still exciting to walk over the hill and see where your ball ended up.  If I end up making a bogey or worse, it really messes with my mind, because the hole seems so easy.

[George Pazin]

I've played the hole about 20 times or so and it is still exciting to walk over the hill and see where your ball ended up.  If I end up making a bogey or worse, it really messes with my mind, because the hole seems so easy.

Simple wisdom. Nice post.

[Adam Clayman]

John, Thanx for the honest post. However, I'm having problems with the premise that Brad is actively preaching. And therefore, Minions there are not. If anything, Brad goes out of his way to encourage others to voice their opinions while keeping his close to the vest. It's alot like this DG, in that regard.

BTW, I'm going in to see old Bud Haney today to have my Ben Winkler curls turned into a nice rascist looking buzz cut.
 

[Jim Franklin]

As I stated before, I liked this hole at EH. I have never been to Lahinch, but after seeing pics of its Dell Hole, I need to visit. That hole looks incredibly fun.

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