[Michael Dugger]

How about the idea of a rope?

When the green is clear you pull it.

Through a conduit the rope travels.
 
Place a bell near the tee which dings when the green is clear.

Safety issue solved.

[Rich Goodale]

I would vote for a ruggedized laptop on the tee, connected by WiFi to a WebCam disguised as a sheep turd on one of the hills surrounding the green.  Not only will this solve the safety issue, but you can post on GCA while waiting for the green to clear, and once it has you can watch your shot land after you've hit it!

[John Kavanaugh]

If you got rid of the aiming rock then the line would be "a little bit right of the closest tree".  Would you then say they should cut down that tree because it helps you aim?  Maybe they should cut down all the trees you can see from that tee, and flatten the hills and remove any other features that might help a golfer aim his tee shot?

The primary purpose of a tree is not to be aimed at.

[John Mayhugh]

All those aiming rocks just ruin Royal County Down. Who would ever want to go back there?

[John Kavanaugh]

All those aiming rocks just ruin Royal County Down. Who would ever want to go back there?

Everytime I want to optimize an experience you guys insist on settling for the status quo.

[John Mayhugh]

All those aiming rocks just ruin Royal County Down. Who would ever want to go back there?

Everytime I want to optimize an experience you guys insist on settling for the status quo.

Granted that I've never played this particular hole, but removing the rock doesn't sound like it would optimize the hole.  Some aiming help improves pace of play if nothing else.  

[John Kavanaugh]

All those aiming rocks just ruin Royal County Down. Who would ever want to go back there?

Everytime I want to optimize an experience you guys insist on settling for the status quo.

Granted that I've never played this particular hole, but removing the rock doesn't sound like it would optimize the hole.  Some aiming help improves pace of play if nothing else.  

It only improves pace of play if golfers who misbehave are allowed on the course.  I said above the rock is a balance against stupidity but that does not make it the best solution.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Another example of optimization would be if riding carts were not allowed.  One step further would be if pull carts were not allowed.  I took a pull cart so I did not have to take a riding cart.  This did not optimize the round to the greatest extent but was an improvement on taking a riding cart.  Even I understand the need for balance and take advantage of less than optimum conditions because the good outweighs the bad.  I can live with the rock.

[Sean_A]

This hole doesn't strike me as anything particularly worthy in the realm of blind shots.  However, somebody mentioned that the tee shot looks well, like nothing.  He is right of course, but this in and of itself is interesting.  I am always intrigued by holes which offer no/little visual help in deciding a line or tactic - they are very rare and for this alone they are worth consideration.  

There pix suggest that there is something about this course which doesn't quite settle right with me.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  Perhaps the look of the course reminds me a bit of farmland - not particularly appealing to me.  Anybody else get a "something ain't quite right" feeling about Erin Hills?

Ciao  

[John Kavanaugh]

Sean,

I am not interested in beating a dead horse but these pictures are horrible.  I would say the course is 20% expansive and 80% contractive in views.  A camera can not grasp a contractive view.

[Mike Hendren]

Barney,

Do you think the entire downslope in front of the green should be maintained at fairway height (mowing challenge aside)?  I misplayed this hole, thinking I could punch a mid-iron just over the hill and be surprised by the final resting spot of my ball.  Instead it hung up on the hillside with an impossible downhill pitch to the narrow green.  

Thoughts?

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney,

Do you think the entire downslope in front of the green should be maintained at fairway height (mowing challenge aside)?  I misplayed this hole, thinking I could punch a mid-iron just over the hill and be surprised by the final resting spot of my ball.  Instead it hung up on the hillside with an impossible downhill pitch to the narrow green.  

Thoughts?

No,  I think your idea eliminates too much skill from the shot.  I think I have seen similar features on the 18th hole at putt putt courses where the owner likes to capture the ball before it heads home with a patron.  Your idea would be worlds of fun but I'm thinking lacking in value.

[Mike Hendren]

Barney,

You're probably right.  Sometimes I favor architectural accomodation of indifferent play under the thinly veiled excuse of it being "classic."

This might be indicative of my larger bias for golden age courses.

Mike

[George Pazin]

Can someone contrast Erin Hill's Dell hole with the Lahinch one? Tom's quote implies that there is little similarity, beyond the blindness - what else is different?

Besides the fact that it is blind, I don't think its all that special of a hole.

Isn't that kind of like saying the 16th at Cypress would be nothing special without the ocean? Isn't the blindness the defining quality of the hole?

I'm not trying to nitpick, I just don't think I understand your point.

[Dan Kelly]

Perhaps the look of the course reminds me a bit of farmland - not particularly appealing to me.  Anybody else get a "something ain't quite right" feeling about Erin Hills?

As it happens, the site of the Dell hole was, for several generations, a burial ground for local agrarians.

They'll be known, henceforth, as The Farmers in the Dell.

But seriously:

You don't like the look of farmland? Why not?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Can someone contrast Erin Hill's Dell hole with the Lahinch one? Tom's quote implies that there is little similarity, beyond the blindness - what else is different?

The green has a similar shape (wide green that is not deep from front to back).  The tee shot is entirely different other than the blindness - you must get the ball in the air at Lahinch.

[Rich Goodale]

Geroge

At the original Dell, you hit over a hill to a green that is roughly at the same level as the tee.  At Erin Hills, you apparently hit over flat ground to a green that lies in a sunken bit of the course.

Original="Keep your head down, stupid!"
New=skull away to your heart's content (oops, I meant, "ground game option")

Rich

[Tom Huckaby]

Geroge

At the original Dell, you hit over a hill to a green that is roughly at the same level as the tee.  At Erin Hills, you apparently hit over flat ground to a green that lies in a sunken bit of the course.

Original="Keep your head down, stupid!"
New=skull away to your heart's content (oops, I meant, "ground game option")

Rich

Oh so perfectly said - well done, Richard.

Never been to Erin Hills, damn likely never will get there.  But I have been to play the real Dell.  I love the latter.  I think I'd like the former, but I'm not sure.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Huck,

How is the original Dell hole oreinted to the line of sight by the golfer.  Meaning at EH, it appears to be set at a 90 degree angle to the line of the golfer.  Is the entire green at the original Dell hole completely blind?

[Phil McDade]

Kalen:

From the "Strokesaver Guide to the Classic Courses of GB&I" --

The Dell at Lahinch is listed at 142 metres from the tips, 137 from the yellows. It has a large mound fronting, in back, and to the right side. There is a little pot bunker to the left-front of the green, but not encroaching on the green. There is a tilt to the area left of the green that presumably feeds balls toward the green.

The green itself is quite narrow -- 18 yards wide at its widest, and is much wider than it is deep (a guess, but 30 yards wide?) The right portion of the the green is a bit "fatter" than the left portion, which is quite narrow, perhaps only 12 yards wide. The strokesaver picture looks like one might be able to see a portion of the fatter, right-side portion of the green from the tee. The green is titled ever-so-slightly, with the right front slighly closer to the tee box than the left back portion of the green. But it's not much of an angle at all.

From what I've seen of it, in this depiction and other pictures, it seems to be aligned quite closely to what I've seen of the Dell at Erin Hills -- pretty much a blind tee shot to a wide but very narrow green, with the terrain around the green playing a role in funneling or kicking the ball toward/near the green.

Hope this helps.

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks Phil,

I guess I have a good excuse for the wife on why we need to take that UK trip...  

[Phil McDade]

There is a very good Dell-like hole at Cullen, on the northeastern coast of Scotland, halfway between Nairn and Fraserburgh. It plays around one of the course's sea stacks, gigantic land forms that the course incorporates into the routing in some fairly unique ways. Cheaper than Lahinch!

[CHrisB]

The Dell at Erin Hills:




The original Dell at Lahinch:

From left of green:

From right of green:

[Tom Yost]

Brilliant! Although the periscope would provide a bit of novelty. Of course you can always use your Sky Caddy to locate the hole position.

I think it would have to be a huge periscope.  I was more interested in providing a safety valve so you don't hit someone on the green.  Currently they use a bell which is far from failproof,  but quaint.

Quaint, indeed.  This conjures up memories of the course in Ohio that I grew up playing that had a blind shot downhill to a green with a bell to signal when the group was leaving the green.  This was back in the 60's.  The hole was changed to eliminate the blindness in the 70's.  I have not since encountered a bell on a golf course.


Tom

[Kalen Braley]

Liberty Lake golf course in spokane, wa has a "bell" hole.  The drive is blind to the fairway below.  After the players have hit thier approach to the green, they ring the bell for the all clear signal.

Indian Canyon in spokane has a similar hole. They installed a large mirror on top of a post that sits 15 feet up to visually inspect the fairway and ensure its clear.

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