[Ted Kramer]

I'd also like to say that I might have to seriously question those on here who say you really can't tell much about a golf course just from photographs.

I have not seen Sebonack since that time walking around it with Doak and some others in the very last days of its grassing in phase and just before opening. So I know the course and have seen it in person and those photos of it on this thread sure do show how impressive it is in a number of ways.

I know one learns the subtleties of architecture by playing a course many times but those photos on this thread show a whole lot.

You know what those pics really show me?
Well I don't know if "show" is the right word . . .
Those pics bring a certain reality to the very front of my mind.
That reality is difference in today's world between the haves and have nots.

The fact that places like that are accessible to a small group of wealthy people for recreation really drives the reality of class differences home to me. Sure private jets, mansions, expensive jewelry, nice cars and tons of other things can define and illustrate class differences, but there is something about acres of pristine waterfront property and a magnificent golf course that really speaks to me. Those pictures do a great job in describing and defining incredible wealth.

Cheers to those who have the luxury to enjoy such a special place.  

-Ted

[Adam Clayman]

Tom, There was a thread recently that postulated exactly what you are saying about the GA era and today's thought provoking designers. However, and this is a big BUT, Rees is right when he implies just having the look does not gaurantee the quality.

Re The 2nd green and the couple of severe greensites at Sebonack. The low mow surrounds refutes the argument that the greens are too small for the undulations. What I'm trying to say is the actual green size is not relavent when the ample collars essentially play as a greenspace, only not at as fast, speedwise.

[George Pazin]

Just another housing development course....

 

Thanks for sharing the pix.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Darn it...another one that I have to add to the list!

[Jim Nugent]

Robert, you are a professional golfer, aren't you?  I don't mean a golf professional, but instead someone who plays or played on some of the tours.  

Was real interested to hear your comments on number two.  Can you tell us what you think of Sebonack as a whole?  The pix look fascinating to me.  

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Tom Paul's post 28005 very much is with my thinking.  At this point I believe Friars Head is somewhat better.  However, I think Sebonic is great with the potential to be elite great.  Holes 11 and 12 could qualify for the next listing of the world's top 500 holes.  I think the 2nd would join this list if the green were softened slope wise while keeping the same flow.  

[Matt_Ward]

Robert Mercer Deruntz:

I asked you a straightforward question on #2 but you failed to address the links to other courses with severe greens as well.

If you say the 2nd green at Sebonack needs to be "softened" then I'd love to get your take on other severe green sites such as Oakmont, Oakland Hills / South, ANGC, the list has a number of other candidates that can be added.

The issue at #2 is that you sometimes need to play away from a direct assault on the hole location. Sometime further away makes better sense than being stuck in a position that is closer but fraught with more demands. There's nothing wrong with that and often times is clearly the better strategic choice.

Candidly, I don't know what you mean when you say "keeping the same flow." Jokingly, I'd like to know what you scored on the hole since many times people form opinions based primarily on how they fared when playing.

The 2nd at Sebonack is one of the most outstanding holes I have ever played. As is IMHO.

The green area is quite demanding but if one were to soften the slopes as you indicated then the same argument could be made for any number of outstanding holes on some of the courses I have just mentioned.

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