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John Kavanaugh

Erin Hills #1
« on: November 05, 2007, 08:48:05 AM »
It's not you, it's me.  I thought it was a great opening hole for both match and stroke play.  Excellent risk/reward options.  We had one in our group challenge the hole and putt for eagle while the other three took advantage of the generous lay up area to have a wedge, at a very good angle, to the hole.

Mind you, the fescue had all recently been cut down to the point that the course was as wide as Ballyneal...It is a one ball per round course in this configuration.

Why do I have a feeling that others did not like the hole when it appears to be one of the great openers in modern golf?
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2007, 08:52:43 AM »
I want to hear about Lawsonia!
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Ryan Farrow

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2007, 09:25:09 AM »
If you thought #1 was good, tell us about two and three. Probably the best 2nd and third holes ever built. IMO.
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2007, 10:09:41 AM »
What tees did you guys play?
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Mr Hurricane

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2007, 10:31:42 AM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on November 05, 2007, 09:25:09 AM
If you thought #1 was good, tell us about two and three. Probably the best 2nd and third holes ever built. IMO.

Better than:

#2 Pine Valley

#3 Royal County Down

 ??? ???

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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 10:36:26 AM »
Gene,

I think he means in combination, but still that's a pretty bold statement...
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 10:37:47 AM »
I suspect a bit of sarcasm at play on this one gents...
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 10:56:57 AM »
If this is what you call doing the golf world a service, I want my money back!
JB your description leaves much to be desired.

Do better..
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jim Dawson

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 11:26:14 AM »
We played a combination of tees to give us a yardage of about 6900.
With the cutting of the "fescue" to about 6", the course was much more appealing.
We had perfect playing conditions and weather, for November.
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2007, 11:37:48 AM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on November 05, 2007, 10:37:47 AM
I suspect a bit of sarcasm at play on this one gents...


Sarcasm? From JK?? Surely you jest.... ;)
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 12:21:21 PM »
I am sitting in class posting during piss breaks so my detail is limited.  In all seriousness Erin Hills #1 is the best modern opener I have played.
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 12:30:53 PM »
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 12:40:10 PM »
The area in front was damaged by rains and flooding in May and has filled in nicely since then.  

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"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 01:40:03 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on November 05, 2007, 09:25:09 AM
If you thought #1 was good, tell us about two and three. Probably the best 2nd and third holes ever built. IMO.

Ryan,

It is my intention to discuss each hole individually.  Two and three are very fine holes but hardly hold a candle to the best modern two and threes I have ever played.  

Adam,

What do you want as far as detail goes?  I am very confused why people consider the tree a problem.  If it is in the way you either work around it or lay up.  The layup area is very generous almost to a fault, it is blind at least, so the backstop is a nice touch.  If a guy wants to challenge the left hazard on both drive and approach he can take the risk of getting on in two.  I would recommend taking the easy and simple route of drive with a right side bias, long iron lay up and a wedge to the green.  What more do you want in a par 5?

The reason I think it works so well as an opener is that the bold player runs the risk of shooting himself in the foot right off the bat or possibly getting off to a great start.  That decision is completely left up to the player.  Are you going to be the tortise or the hare...Great fun.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 01:45:01 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 02:16:07 PM »
John,

I'm impressed that one of your group was able to draw a good enough lie with his first to pull off a second that left him putting for eagle.  

That's my problem with hole--I'm all for bumps and humps to make things interesting but to stand awkwardly on your second shot of the day and face a blind shot to the lay-up area, even if it is generous, is not my cup of tea.  Based on my experience with the landing zone, you're rarely going to have the heroic choice.

It would make a fine 10th hole, imo.

And can we avoid heaping more unreasonably broad superlatives on this course?  After all, it is surely the only course in history that, BEFORE IT OPENED, was breathlessly hyped on national TV by the Director of the USGA as The New New Thing in U.S. Open golf.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2007, 02:52:27 PM »
JB, I just wanted more and you have provided some of it. Thanks to the pictures and diagram being posted.

Now, I want to know how you felt?  Did those feelings change while experiencing the hole?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2007, 05:34:57 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on November 05, 2007, 02:52:27 PM
JB, I just wanted more and you have provided some of it. Thanks to the pictures and diagram being posted.

Now, I want to know how you felt?  Did those feelings change while experiencing the hole?

I felt a great element of surprise when I hit my lay up to a blind area and found the ball to be in perfect position.  I did not expect there to be so much room for error on both the drive and the lay up based on what I had heard.  I also got a warm feeling when I was able to hit the ball short of the green and let it run up to a front pin.  I had a slight feeling of despair when I pull/yanked my ten foot birdie putt but then once again was washed over with joy when I made my 5 foot comebacker for par.  I am surprised feelings matter.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:38:59 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2007, 05:38:09 PM »
Quote from: Eric_Terhorst on November 05, 2007, 02:16:07 PM
John,

I'm impressed that one of your group was able to draw a good enough lie with his first to pull off a second that left him putting for eagle.  

That's my problem with hole--I'm all for bumps and humps to make things interesting but to stand awkwardly on your second shot of the day and face a blind shot to the lay-up area, even if it is generous, is not my cup of tea.  Based on my experience with the landing zone, you're rarely going to have the heroic choice.

It would make a fine 10th hole, imo.

And can we avoid heaping more unreasonably broad superlatives on this course?  After all, it is surely the only course in history that, BEFORE IT OPENED, was breathlessly hyped on national TV by the Director of the USGA as The New New Thing in U.S. Open golf.

Eric,

I think you would agree that I must have a favorite opening hole among the modern courses I have played.  It is not a superlative to name this hole as that.

I would say that the unlevel lies are a plus given the large layup area available.  I don't think many golfers have the skill or have earned the right to hit that green in two...Those who do got a break in life..so what?
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2007, 05:40:40 PM »
Quote from: JES II on November 05, 2007, 08:52:43 AM
I want to hear about Lawsonia!

I'll talk about Lawsonia when I am back at work and have more free time.  My initial thought is that Lawsonia is a course to spend time with your wife while Erin Hills is a destination to take your son.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:42:00 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2007, 05:41:33 PM »
"Feelings, nothing more than feelings..."

Looking forward to more reports.  

Off the top of my head, 2 and 3 at Pacific Dunes are my favorite modern 2 and 3 holes, though 2 at Stone Eagle is also very nice.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2007, 05:42:56 PM »
btw...Victoria National has the best second and third holes in modern golf.
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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2007, 05:46:05 PM »
John,
You must play a different game than I do. I'd need to play from the 549 mark to reach the fairway, then hit two fairway woods to reach the green. Not much strategy for my game, except krrping it on the fairway to avoid getting a big number right out of the gate.
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Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2007, 05:46:47 PM »
I look forward to seeing all the pictures John surely must have taken during the round.   ;D
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2007, 05:47:08 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on November 05, 2007, 05:42:56 PM
btw...Victoria National has the best second and third holes in modern golf.

Better than the second and third at Sand Hills? Sutton Bay? The Quarry?
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills #1
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2007, 05:53:36 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly™ on November 05, 2007, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on November 05, 2007, 05:42:56 PM
btw...Victoria National has the best second and third holes in modern golf.

Better than the second and third at Sand Hills? Sutton Bay? The Quarry?

I should have said, as I had before, best I had played.

Peter,

I figure I hit a 240yd drive up the right side followed by a 200 yd 3 iron which left me 130 yds down hill to a front pin.  As is always the case for me the conditions were perfect and the fairways were running fast.
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