[John Kavanaugh]

I recently spent five days studying the culture and people of Louisiana and came away with the impression that they are not interested in the folly of golf course architecture.  I've never been to France but have the same impression.  Is there a relationship between a perverse love of food that precludes a culture from caring about golf?  Are there simularities in the golf course architecture of France and Louisiana?  Are there simularities beyond food in their cultures?  

[Mark Bourgeois]

Well, golf did originate in a Calvinist culture...with a culinary tradition whose pinnacle was haggis...

I recall a scene in the movie "Angel Heart," where Lisa Bonet's character comes into a house wearing a track suit and this New Orleans matron asked why she's dressed like that. Bonet says she's been out running.

The matron says, "Running?  From what?"

Does that help?

[John Kavanaugh]

The greatest running scene in all of movies is Ellen Barkin in The Big Easy.

[Dan Kelly]

The greatest running scene in all of movies is Ellen Barkin in The Big Easy.

Darn. And that's the one movie I haven't seen.

[RJ_Daley]

Yeah, I think you are on to something there JK.  Italy for the most part, particularly the mid southern places like Naples (perhaps the N.O. of Italy) have a completely different mind set, that precludes golf.  

As for N.O.L.A., they had City Park (which if shined up would have been pretty darn good and avaliable to the public).  I don't know what it is like post Katrina.  I did spend a day playing there whilst at the GCSAA convo in 92.  I think I sat out a downpour in a shelter in the middle of the course with John Larrochette.  I talked to him but didn't ask him if he was him...    All his playing partners could talk about is where I should go for the etouffee...  So golf to a cajun or perhaps a guaglione, or frenchman is a byplay of a bigger 'big easy'.

[tlavin]

Here's a pretty good New Orleans swimming pool scene: Annette O'Toole, in Cat People, plunging topless into the pool to escape Nastassia Kinska, qua, cat.  Twisted, but good.

[Bob_Huntley]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

Bob,

Are they in France or Louisiana?  I have never been to France and did not bother to take my clubs to Louisiana.

Are there regions of southern Louisiana that are not God forsaken swamps.  My only exposure was the drive from New Orleans to Baton Rouge.

[tlavin]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

Bob,

Are they in France or Louisiana?  I have never been to France and did not bother to take my clubs to Louisiana.

Are there regions of southern Louisiana that are not God forsaken swamps.  My only exposure was the drive from New Orleans to Baton Rouge.

They are golf courses in France, according to what I've read here and heard here and there, but they all sound like Big Easy stripper names to me.

[Bob_Huntley]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

Bob,

Are they in France or Louisiana?  I have never been to France and did not bother to take my clubs to Louisiana.

Surely you jest?

Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

Bob,

Are they in France or Louisiana?  I have never been to France and did not bother to take my clubs to Louisiana.

Surely you jest?

Bob

Not at all.  I was down at LSU studying emergency management and attempted to explain to the class how difficult it must have been for northern rescue workers to get their bearings in a culture so different than anywhere else in the country.  The names you mentioned could have has easily been street names as golf courses.  The orderly evacution for the recent California fires is a perfect example.  

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

I think it's an interesting question, and France and Italy jump to mind.   However, there are plenty of great Chinese and Japanese chefs and both of those cultures seem to flock to golf.   Mexico...love of food, but less of golf, I guess.  

However, I think a more interesting food theory is one I came up with, that we'll call "Cirba's Culinary Corrollary" (you can call me a pompous ass later ).

Simply stated, it goes like this.   The hotter the climate (especially if mixed with high humidity), the hotter (spicier) the food.   The colder the climate, the more bland and dull the food.

Think of the hottest province of China (Szechuan) which features their spiciest cuisine.   Think Mexican food...think the most humid, hot parts of the US (Louisiana) and the Cajun/Creole fare.   Think of the spiciness of northern Indian food, or Thai or Vietnamese.

Contrast that with the diets of Norwegians, Icelander, Scots, Russians, etc.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sweaty people like to sweat.  It cools them off..

[Mike_Cirba]

Sweaty people like to sweat.  It cools them off..

I think that makes sense, John.  

What did you eat down there?

[John Kavanaugh]

My favorite meal was the crawdad enchiladas at a local mexican joint.  

[Phil Benedict]

  Are there simularities beyond food in their cultures?  

The Napoleonic Code.  Which according to Stanley Kowalski, is favorable to male heads of households.

[Billsteele]

I always forget, was it Blanche Dubois or John Kavanaugh who said, "I have always depended upon the kindness of strangers."

[Mike_Cirba]

My favorite meal was the crawdad enchiladas at a local mexican joint.  

That sounds really, really good right now.  

[tlavin]

I always forget, was it Blanche Dubois or John Kavanaugh who said, "I have always depended upon the kindness of strangers."

the blindness of strangers has always helped me out...

[John Kavanaugh]

I always forget, was it Blanche Dubois or John Kavanaugh who said, "I have always depended upon the kindness of strangers."

I do have to give kudos to the nice couple who gave me a ride to my hotel after the bar closed and I could not get a cab to come get me.

I arrived back at the hotel at 4 am and slept until 2 pm where I stumbled across the street to find the excellent crawdad enchiladas.  This was on the only day I would have had time to golf.  I was never so happy to not have a set of clubs.

[Bob_Huntley]

John,

Have you ever played at Morfontaine, Chantilly, St. Germaine, Fontenbleu and Le Bourdes? If you haven't you should, it might brighten your horizon.

Bob

Bob,

Are they in France or Louisiana?  I have never been to France and did not bother to take my clubs to Louisiana.

Surely you jest?

Bob

Not at all.  I was down at LSU studying emergency management and attempted to explain to the class how difficult it must have been for northern rescue workers to get their bearings in a culture so different than anywhere else in the country.  The names you mentioned could have has easily been street names as golf courses.  The orderly evacution for the recent California fires is a perfect example.  

But John,

Were you not in a discussion of foreign course where some of the listed names were mentioned?. With your encyclopaedic memory does not the name Morfontaine jump out of the page?

I may of course have the wrong John.

Bob

[Mark Bourgeois]

Your first mistake was leaving New Orleans for Baton Rouge.

As to street names, there is a Fountainebleu and a St. Germain, I think, and while there's no Chantilly there is a Gentilly Boulevard.

And as for Yankee confusion, the geography of New Orleans is not East, West, North, South but river and lake, as in "Mississippi River side" or "Lake Pontchartrain side."

Also:
Lowerline St. is farther Uptown than Upperline St.
You can meet people at the (perpendicular) intersection of South Claiborne and South Carrollton

In fact, books have been written on the curiosities of New Orleans street names.

So take that, Bob!

[Dan Kelly]

I may of course have the wrong John.

I'd guess that happens often in New Orleans.

[Peter Pallotta]

John
I don’t think either Huey Long or Charles de Gaulle played golf, so there's something maybe.

So, some early French settlers to Canada (the Acadians) move down to Louisiana when it's still controlled by France (until 1800 I think) and become the Cajuns. Golf doesn't take off there, but jazz does. France is the first country in the world to warmly embrace the American jazz stars of the 20s and 30s. Louis Armstrong takes himself and his music up from New Orleans to Chicago in the mid 1920s. Chicago becomes a great jazz town; it also has some very good golf courses...

Sorry, that didn't go anywhere. I thought it might've

Peter

[Sam Morrow]

There is actually a good amount of fair golf in Louisiana, it's just often off the beaten path.

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