[Mark Bourgeois]

WTF: you know, the video game, "Work Time Fun."  You "win" by mastering inane jobs like putting caps on pens, chicken sorting, and wiping TV screens. There's no rhyme or reason, you just do the job -- the less you think or reason why the better!

In design, I figure "WTF" holes are holes where the architect let his imagination (or maybe interns?) run wild.  For golfers, the reaction is often "WTF!!!!!" (Common usage of acronym.)

So a WTF hole, for lack of a better definition, is one where you really scratch your head.  I believe in Tom Doak's book, those holes get a "?" rather than a "!" (Although I think his standards were too low -- or is it too "high:" for example, he gives 12 Addington a "?" but in my warped experience it's not all that weird, or bad.)

We all know WTF holes that stink or that we hate, how 'bout some WTF holes you've played (or designed) that -- rationality be damned[/i] -- you like?

Here are a couple of mine.  First up, Royal Dublin's 446-meter, Stroke-2 (surprise) 5th, named "Ireland's Eye" -- and let me tell you, a rich man has better chance of passing through the gates of heaven than the golfer has of threading this fairway -- especially given the wind.  This fairway is thinner than OJ's alibi.

Q: Why do I like it?
A: Well, you can find your ball in the wispy and move it, so it doesn't play completely ridiculous. It only looks completely ridiculous.

Q: WTF quality?
A: Who says you need a fairway on a 446-meter hole?




Next up, Blue Mash's 310-yard 8th.  I scratched my head until I almost ran out of scalp, then after careful deliberation decided on the Line of Caveman: aim for the "fairway" just right of the flag and in the immortal words of Dan Marino, "Swing hard in case you hit it."

Q: Why do I like it?
A: Might take >50 plays to find the line.  Or is this a hole bereft of "line"?

Q: WTF quality?
A: Are we playing golf -- or "capture the flag"?

From the tee:


Close-up view off tee:


How 'bout you?

Mark

[Kyle Harris]

Mark,

The hole you listed second looks very appealing to me from the pictures. What qualities make it so bizarre?

I do like the 11th hole at Lederach, which has gotten some rather scathing reviews in the local Philadelphia media from other golfers. If one doesn't overthink it, it's quite easy.

I think you may find a lot of holes meet this category by being simpler than they appear.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Kyle,

It's not all that bizarre in my book.  It's just that when you stand on the tee it probably violates a golfer's sense of what a hole is "supposed to look like." Uh, I guess that might make it "bizarre" to many...

All you can see of fairway is that in front of the huge "fairway" bunker.  If you want to land it there, it's a little wedge.  But then as you can see by the marker it's 150 to the green.

The green looks like a fortress, doesn't it? The entire hole looks like a fortress!

A second "option" off the tee is try to land it on the shelf of fairway beyond that big bunker.  That shelf narrows the closer you get towards the green.

So, in both of these options you can safely lay back off the tee, but you haven't really made much progress.

A third and I think best option is to hit it as far down the left side as you're comfortable.  The green angles from left to right, so if you can execute that you've succeeded in making the hole easier.

The option I took is to look at the hole, think "WTF," and hit driver "towards" the green. "Towards" because what the heck is up there?! The problem is, if you hit right of that fronting bunker you are going to:
A) land in a fairly-deep (could be deeper IMHO) bunker;
B) land in rough that's not horrible, except that you now have to hit to an elevated table-top green that's shallow from that angle; and / or
C) get an uneven lie due to the swales and bumps over there.

I really enjoyed it...

Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

Here are a few more pics -- now I'm wondering whether this is a freaked-out bottle hole. What do you think? Come to think of it, there is a "quasi-Redan" just a few holes prior:



Back to WTF. If you lay up to 100 yards, here's your WTF view:



If you go a little farther, you're not much better off, at least visually:



And if you go right -- well, you can see the problem, can't you:



I liked this hole when I played it, and in the telling I am growing to like it even more...

Mark

[Dan_Callahan]

In my opinion, the ultimate WTF hole is the 18th at Yale. I used to absolutely hate it. Over time, it's grown on me if only because I love to see the reaction of friends the first time they stand on the tee. Without a caddie or sherpa, you really have no idea what to do on your tee shot or on your second. How many players have hit driver, only to see their ball disappear into the side of a hill that looks much farther away than it really is?

The very first time I played at Yale, I hit a huge flare for my second and figured the ball was gone. To my surprise, there was a parallel fairway and I had a perfect lie right in the middle, with an open look at the green. Appropriately given this thread, I said to my partner "WTF is that?"

In some ways, the improvements at Yale have made the 18th more mainstream and taken away some of the WTF factor. It's a better hole now, but maybe at the expense of a good laugh from people who have never seen anything like it.

[Tom_Doak]

Not quite sure I understand the category, but the fifth hole at Crystal Downs always generates a perplexed look in the eyes of a first-time visitor.  Once you understand what's going on, though, most good players are likely to take the same approach to it.  (And THERE'S a green which doesn't hold approach shots well.)

My "?" notation in The Confidential Guide was reserved for holes which were unusual and which I hadn't decided if they were good or bad ... or "?!" for a hole I had decided was good but knew many people would not agree with, such as the Dell at Lahinch.  In the case of the 12th at Addington, you either have to hit a draw over the left edge of the fairway to find one of the decks below, or play a safe drive and probably be out of range for getting your second shot across the broad, deep valley in front of the green.  It's a most unusual hole.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Dan

When Tom Weiskopf was out to Yale for possibly doing the work which ended up going to Rees Jones, he was asked where he would start.  His reply (I have heard second-hand) was, "Blow up 18."

Not sure if he was aware of the joke about MacRaynor running out of money / dynamite after 17 holes.

Tom

The category is basically holes where you scratch your head but like anyway.  There does not appear to be a "right" way to play the hole, even after you've played it!

Mark

PS I enjoyed the hole punctuations in your book greatly and wish Ran did same in his reviews.

[Joe Bausch]

This one is easy for me:  my WTF hole that I quickly grew to love is #16 of GH's Inniscrone.  Most golfers I've taken out there think the same thing and will likely never like it.  Rather than post the multiple pics here directly, I'll send you to where they are located (14 pics in all):

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Inniscrone/pages/page_123.html

I will say that in my 30+ years of golf I've never seen a hole quite like this one.

[Craig Disher]

Tobacco Road is filled with them. My favorite (and perhaps a WTF without equal) is the 13th - the zig-zag par 5 that ends with the dell green. There are other superb head-scratchers - the 1st, 6th, 9th, 15th, 16th.

[Mike_Cirba]

Lederach has 'em all over the place.

I'm not surrpised when I hear people tell me they hate that course, but I do feel really sorry for them because they'll never get it.

Oh well...great big world and all that.  

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious for those in the know who have played both.  

While I've heard a lot of praise for the original Dell hole, I've also heard some less than enthused comments about the equivilant at Erin Hills.  I think Brad Klein said something that would make its name be closer to "Del Taco".

Thanks,

[Michael Dugger]

I gotta nominate the 9th at Pacific Dunes

but it is one of my all time faves

the dreaded wall of grass....more intimidating than it really plays

It's one of those where you leave your trolley or bag behind and walk up to the tee with just a driver.  The tee shot is blind.  The hole possesses two greens.  

Some people just cannot deal with how unique it is....

[Chuck Brown]

18 at Yale.  I see somebody beat me to it.  I'm not even sure what you would do with that hole to fix it, without dynamite and a Caterpiller.  I think the strategy on Yale 18 is this:  1.  Hit it as hard as you can.  2.  Hit it again, and hope.  3.  If you are lucky, you will find your ball.  4.  If you find your ball, you will have an incredible feeling of relief once you chip it on the green.

[Jim Nugent]

In my opinion, the ultimate WTF hole is the 18th at Yale. I used to absolutely hate it. Over time, it's grown on me if only because I love to see the reaction of friends the first time they stand on the tee. Without a caddie or sherpa, you really have no idea what to do on your tee shot or on your second. How many players have hit driver, only to see their ball disappear into the side of a hill that looks much farther away than it really is?

The very first time I played at Yale, I hit a huge flare for my second and figured the ball was gone. To my surprise, there was a parallel fairway and I had a perfect lie right in the middle, with an open look at the green. Appropriately given this thread, I said to my partner "WTF is that?"

Does anyone have some pictures of #18 at Yale, that show how the show looks from the tee and from the fairway?  I've heard so much about the hole, but can't picture it at all.  Thanks...

[Michael Dugger]

I am not familiar enough with Yale to identify it but will someone point out the 18th???

[Andy Hughes]

"Here are a few more pics -- now I'm wondering whether this is a freaked-out bottle hole"

Mark, why do you call that a bottle hole? Isn't it the 4th hole at Blue Mash, the par 3? What am I missing? Which is the quasi-Redan?

PS, your wtf hole---it takes a pretty damn good lick to get up by the green I believe.  

[Bill Shamleffer]

I am not familiar enough with Yale to identify it but will someone point out the 18th???

I believe the smaller copyright symbol "©" in the middle of the picture is on the 18th fairway.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I'm thinking of the 200 yard plus, par 3 at Hunstanton.  You wait for the flag to be changed to indicate you can go (and for the first timer players anyway) have one more look at the dune you are about to hit over - with no clue as to the line - think "WTF" and swing away with what ever club seems the best guess.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Michael,

Read Ran's review! BTW I don't think 18 Yale should count as a WTF hole for the purposes of this thread because:
A) There's a clear way to play it, at least in retrospect. Hit either over or to the left of the first ridge.  Then hit either to the far precipice of the hill or to the right of the hill.  Lastly, hit to green.
B) People generally hate the hole. It's not they don't understand how to play it in retrospect, it's they hate either the narrrowness of the demands it places on them (either you hit the shot, or you don't) or just the look of it.

Andy, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the 4th as a quasi-Redan.  I offered that as possible evidence that Hills was inspired by a template or two, namely the Bottle Hole template for the 8th. I figured if he could include something like the Redan out there, maybe he could include something like the Bottle.

Mark

[Mike_Cirba]

Mark,

All I know is that in reading this thread, Blue Mash has moved up on my "Courses to Play" list.

Actually, another Maryland Arthur Hills course I mostly like is Maryland National.   They have a horrible routing and a number of terrific holes (including some WTF's) mixed with some awful ones, including one of the worst holes on the planet, the short par four 16th, which also has the worst cart path placement I've ever seen.

http://www.marylandnational.com/course/hole_16.htm

[Mark Bourgeois]

It would be nice if that path had curbs, especially a nice high one on the right. You could drive the green with a putter.

But that I think is a separate WTF category...

I think Blue Mash came in for criticism here for things like power lines in play but I phase that stuff out.  There are some weak holes out there, but there also are a few to counter balance.  In addition to the two holes mentioned, I liked the use of a swale on the short-4 7th, the use of bunkering inside the dogleg on the long 16th, and the big centerline bunker on 18.

Also, 13 felt "Edenesque," making that two (maybe) interpretations of classic par 3 designs.

And I'm still interested to see whether anyone thinks the WTF 8th hole is Bottle-like.

Mark

(PS As an OT aside, has anyone out there played the video game WTF? It's hilarious fun until you realize you are "re-working" old jobs you hated.  Chicken sorting is hilarious, until you remember that job in the mail room, or in my case jobs[/b] in mail rooms[/b]...W-T-F...)

[Patrick Kiser]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the 6th at Riviera (bunker in the green).  Certainly would strike me as a WTF hole.  I think I would grow to like it by figuring out how to play it.

[Sean_A]

I can nominate three holes from Pennard (more actually, but I will stick with these three) that get people scratching their heads when they stand on the tee.  

The 4th usually elicits a look that says "what the hell".  As you can see, the sightline is crazy because there is a complete lack of definition.  I really like the second shot because I know the chances of holding the green for the aggressive shot are slim and none.  People crest the brow short of the green and give you the same look as on the tee.


The 11th is perplexing for most for the exact opposite reason as #4 and to a lesser extent the other holes.  The target is suddenly miniscule on a course which up to this point has more or less been wide open.


Finally, the 17th.  A crazy dogleg left up a hill.  There are several strange bits to the hole.  First its blind.  Second, all tee shots go zooming right down the hill once they touch down.  Third, The elbow of the dogleg is very difficult to reach so nearly always the player faces an awkward second which is also blind to a narrow fairway.  I have only just started to like this hole after many years of "what the hell" attitude.

As I say, there are several other moments at Pennard which either break your heart or lift your spirits - its all in the attitude.

Ciao

[Ed Tilley]

No. 10 at St. Enodoc is a classic WTF hole. I really, really don't like it as I think it forces you to play it in a certain way. However, I know that a lot of people think it's a really good hole, many on this site.

Plus several holes at Perranporth - 2,3,5......

No.2







No.3





No.5





No.8



No.12





No.13







Or how about no.12 at Nefyn?

[Mike_Cirba]

Ok...Ed wins.  

Wow...WTF!!!  

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