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Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 04:34:43 PM »
Bob,

Atlantic GC has done that, so has Arcadia Bluffs. But don't let the topic wander; it's a good one as is.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:35:20 PM by Brad Klein »
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Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 04:43:16 PM »
Pacific Grove when the ocean 9 was built.
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Mike Sweeney

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2007, 04:45:58 PM »
Bob,

They just did it at Springdale GC (Princeton University, William Flynn). I saw it but did not play it this summer. Basically moved the course up 4 or 5 holes so the old 5 is now #1. Sequence stayed the same I think.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:46:57 PM by Mike Sweeney »
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Clyde Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2007, 04:47:41 PM »
Wilmington Island Club (formerly Savannah Inn & Resort, formerly General Oglethorpe GC) Savannah, GA

Savannah GC, Savannah, GA

Plantation Course, The Landings, Savannah, GA

Port Royal Plantation, Robbers Row and Barony Courses, Hilton Head Island, SC
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John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2007, 04:48:50 PM »
If you're going overseas, I know the clubhouse at the Island near Dublin was relocated.  I think the 14th hole was originally the first.
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2007, 04:51:42 PM »
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been participating here for a long long time.  I've waited patiently, never losing hope.  I felt like a Red Sox fan, so their 2004 victory buoyed my spirits.  Still, it never happened.

UNTIL TODAY.

FINALLY, someone asked a question to which my beloved (and be-hated) home course is a viable and truthful answer.

Yes, the great SANTA TERESA GC renumbered the holes on its front nine when a new clubhouse was built in the early 80s.

I can now die in peace.

 ;D
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2007, 05:20:39 PM »
Tom -

Only too pleased to have played a role helping you achieve a happy after life.

It's one of the little things that make GCA so special. ;)  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 05:22:55 PM by BCrosby »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 05:23:25 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on October 10, 2007, 05:20:39 PM
Tom -

Only too pleased to have played a role helping you achieve a happy after life.

It's one of the little things that make GCA so special. ;)  

Bob, now you have this going for you... which is nice.

 ;D
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John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 05:29:22 PM »
Tom

I think he former San Mateo Muni did as well during the rebuild of the club house and course rework.

Poplar Creek is the  new name.

John
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The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Mike Sweeney

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 05:32:02 PM »
Also Greate Bay CC at the Jersey Shore, Willie Park.

http://www.greatebay.com/home.html

Basically was moved from/to the ends of 18.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 05:32:45 PM »
Commonwealth National GC in Horsham, PA built a new clubhouse and the former 18 is now the current 1 and the former 17 is now the current 18, one of the most difficult finishing holes in the Philadelphia area.. Nothing else changed in the routing except the numbering of the holes.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve Sayers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2007, 05:56:25 PM »
LuLu CC (Ross):

1928 clubhouse moved from one side of Limekiln Pike to the other.  Shortly thereafter present day 12 was altered from an interesting 210 “reverse reef” to 175 not so interesting par three.
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2007, 06:05:18 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on October 10, 2007, 09:47:40 AM
A friend is writing a piece on clubs that have relocated their cluhouse and, as a consequence, renumbered the holes on their course.

Does anyone know of places where that happened?

Bob
The oldest course in the western hemisphere (maybe) the MANCHESTER GOLF CLUB in Mandeville Jamaica (1865-7) originally had the clubhouse on what is now the 5th tee.
i.e. the first hole became #5, the last hole is now the former 9th.  They still play the original 9 holes. The 8th hole is a superb par three, unless you get too close to the stone wall.

Stanley Thompson visited the course when he did Constant Springs in Kingston area, I don't think he did any work on Manchester, well worth a visit!
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2007, 06:09:53 PM »
Pauma Valley changed the holes numbers after leaving their first clubhouse, John Wayne's former home. That hole there is now the 14th.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2007, 06:34:10 PM »
another Ross layout:

Carolina GC in Charlotte, a 1920s daily-fee with the old clubhouse by the present 14th green/7th tee, shut down and restructured itself in the late 1950s, moving its clubhouse to the present location and thus reordering the number of all of its holes. Two years ago they eliminated the re-numbered 1 & 2 holes and had Kris Spence build two new ones.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 06:39:56 PM by Brad Klein »
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Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2007, 06:50:28 PM »
Flossmoor CC (formerly Homewood CC) site of 1906 Western Open and 1909 Western Am. prior to relocation of clubhouse due to fire in 1914.  Name also changed in 1914.  Club hosted the PGA 1920 and US Am 1923 using the renumbered routing.  
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"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2007, 08:12:07 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on October 10, 2007, 10:09:41 AM
Forest Akers West - Michigan State University.

Terrible move.

Couldn't agree more...Played Forest Akers often in the 70's, typical muni type clubhouse - no that's an exageration.  Simply a place to pay your fee -  with a practice area right next to the club house, just great...fast forward to 2005...played it again...now CCFD....take my bag...huge clubhouse and as I recall a hotel...certainly not an improvement in my opinion
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Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2007, 09:16:16 PM »
Brookside Allentown, a fine course mentioned on here a week ago relocated their clubhouse about 10 years ago.  This is the story I have heard.  The clubhouse was across the road from the golf course.  The township would not grant permission for the carts to cross from the clubhouse side to the golf course side.  So the club built a new clubhouse on the side of the property with the golf course.

The also found a buyer for the old clubhouse and pool, the township which would not let them cross the road now uses it for a community pool and activity center.  Ironic.
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Proud member of a Doak 3.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2007, 10:48:45 PM »
Alpine CC, an AWT golf course in Bergen County, NJ is a very interesting study, one that puzzles me to this day.

Originally, the 3rd hole was the 1st hole and the 2nd hole was the 18th hole.

The 9th hole didn't return to the clubhouse.

At some point in time the club constructed a mini or hybrid clubhouse on the other end of the property, requiring quite a drive to get to the reordered 1st or 10th tee and quite a drive to get back to the main clubhouse from the 9th or 18th green.  

The 17th hole became the 1st hole and the 16th hole became the 18th hole, with both nines returning to the mini clubhouse.

Not that long ago I believe that the mini clubhouse was destroyed.  Rather than abandon it, a more elaborate mini clubhouse was reconstructed.

Recently, the club spent a considerable sum remodeling the clubhouse, but, left the current order of play intact, thus, the long drive to the 1st and 10 tees and the long drive from the 9th and 18th green remain.

It's one of the most awkward situations that I've ever seen in golf.

It's almost like staying at the clubhouse at Pine Valley and having to drive to the practice range to tee off, and then, having to drive back from that spot at the end of the round.

Perhaps NAF can shed some light on the club's thinking.

I can't figure it out.
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James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2007, 12:22:30 AM »
Steve Sayers

nice to see you posting.   8)

Re clubhouses

Moortown in Leeds shifted from an original (club)house behind the current #11 green to the clubhouse behind the current #18 green.  I am not aware that the routing has been significantly diminsihed by that change (#1 is a par-5, the old #1 now #12 is a par 5, the current #18 is a good par 4.5 whereas the old #18 now #11 is a good par 4).

I assume the National in Melbourne Australia had a re-ordering of the Old 18 when the new clubhouse was built.  Good or bad for the order of play? - I have no idea unfortunately.

James B
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2007, 02:05:42 AM »
If he wants to do a sequel about future moves, Walton Heath about have made several attempts to get permission to build a new Clubhouse on the other side of the road to the right of the courses.

I am told they haven't given up on the idea. The curent clubhouse would be a sad loss but there's plenty of land out there to improve on the Old's, first.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 02:05:55 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
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Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2007, 06:46:48 AM »
Rochester and Cobham, Kent, England is on it's 4th clubhouse in 20yrs all the changes have been due to a bridge collapse (leaving the course on the wrong side of a motorway), motorway widening and finally the high speed rail link. 2 or 3 new holes have now been built as well as a re-routing.
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Cave Nil Vino

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2007, 07:36:55 AM »
Very impressive guys. I would not have guessed it had happened so many times.

Let me ask again. What is the story with the old Princes clubhouse? Why is the old, boarded-up clubhouse still there as a spooky eyesore?

Or to paraphrase Heidegger, why is there an old coubhouse there and not nothing?

Bob
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 07:57:19 AM by BCrosby »
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wsmorrison

Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2007, 07:59:05 AM »
Bob,

According to David Dobby, course historian at Deal and the author of Golf on the Kent Coast,

"After the war (WW II) the original club-house was also restored and redesigned to become a very familiar and much loved building on the edge of the foreshore, fitted out to accommodate the needs of lady golfers as well as men.  Regrettably it's position was found to be unsuitable to serve the course to its best advantage and a new clubhouse has been constructed more centrally between all three loops.  The original clubhouse and adjoining buildings are now derelict and in danger of collapse, which is a sad loss.  During the recent Open it was re-roofed and decorated, it is said largely at the expense of the BBC, as it formed a significant backdrop to the 14th tee of Royal St. Georges."
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Relocating the clubhouse
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2007, 08:04:53 AM »
Thanks Wayne. (BTW, is that a book worth buying?)

But the passage doesn't answer the Heideggerian question. Why isn't the old clubhouse not there? ;)

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