[Kirk Gill]

Played Black Bear GC (formerly Canterberry) in Parker, Colorado today (sorry, did not bring the camera). It's been years since I played it, and some things have changed. There was barely a house near the course last time I was there, but they've pretty much completed all of the housing now. What's nice, given the reality of the housing, is that all the corridors are at least two holes wide, if you know what I mean. There's not the feeling you get from singlefile holes routed through canyons of houses. The course didn't feel confined.

The reason I bring up this course is that I know that the architect, Jeff Brauer, posts on this forum, and I'd be interested if he would discuss the creation of this course. The ground on which the course lies is challenging to say the least - hilly, with deep arroyos throughout. It makes for a lot of intimidating carries, uphill, downhill, and sidehill lies, and several long hikes/rides between holes.

Positives for me were the rolling fairways, the firm conditions, and approaches that sometimes required a fade, sometimes a draw, sometimes a purely aerial approach, and sometimes were receptive to bump and run. Negatives were the aforementioned long hauls between holes, somewhat repetitive bunkering, and greens that seemed fairly bland (but to be fair, they had recently been aerated and sanded, and so there's probably a lot more break there than I was seeing).

Has anyone out there played the course? Any opinions? And if Jeff Brauer is out there......any memories of the design and construction? Both Pradera and Colorado Golf Club are within 10 miles of Black Bear. Are they on more or less similar ground, or less difficult?

[Peter Zarlengo]

I drove past the course everyday to work on Colorado GC, but haven't played it. Colorado GC property is just across Stroh Rd. so the differences shouldn't be that great.

When did the name change for Canterberry? And is it now a private course?

I guess its hard to feel confined in those types of spaces, with the rolling grasslands and vistas to the Rockies. But I think that to some degree confinement can be good (but not from a pattern of houses if thats, what I'm assuming you mean).  How much Ponderosa Pine was on site to give the more natural kind confinement?

As far as similarities to what you describe at Black Bear, the arroyos are definately present at CGC. Really only on large arroyo, though, that plays parallel to holes 4,5,6,and 12 with carries at 3 and 7.  I would guess that the soils, hydrology, and vegetation of the two sites are somewhat similar.

[Kirk Gill]

Peter, funny, I drive past Colorado Golf Club everyday on my way to work on, well, computers for a large corporation!

The name change happened just this year, I believe, as a result of the course being taken over by the company that runs Bear Dance.

There was never as much ponderosa pine on that property as on the CGC property - more the scrub oak and open grassland.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Kirk,

Funny, but I just heard the other day that the name had changed.  Ah, it had a funny spelling anyway.  is there a clubhouse yet?  I played twice, starting on what I consider the 17th tee.......out back of the maintenance area.  I would also be interested in how much of the native is left on the coures, although I will google it in a minute to check myself.....

Yes, it was a housing course.  The land planner had done a routing (possibly with the help of Jim Engh, if memory serves) and we got to change it, but the long walks to max out housing frontage were a given.  Budget was about $3Mil at a time when we really should have been spending about $3.3-5 or so.  Irrigation could have been a bit wider with more part circle edge heads to keep the natives pristine.  

Also, we tried to limit earthmoving.  I learned the lesson that you can have a fw cross slope up to 11% if hitting into the hill, (hole 11) but less than half of that if rolling downhill (16, where the ball continues to roll to one spot left of the fw)  The fw were rye when planted, and that may have changed.

As to the repetitive bunkering, I think the basic style was attractive, and we did a few that left the native backing.  It was there that I also learned that its not a bad thing to set some ROBOTS (rules of thumb, often broken) about varying the number of bunkers around greens or LZ's from 0 to a dozen to avoid repetition. I think some of my multiple bunker holes (like 4 and 12) have had some removed.

The 4th and 10th were good double fw holes, and I also recall 2, 8, 11 (play the back tee for the chasm carry) and 18 as being favorites.  Many holes had angled carries over the native off the tee. All par 3's required chasm carries to maintain environmental corridors.

Since it designed for a golf management company, I probably toned down green contours or speed of play, although in that period, I wasn't experimenting to the max with them anyway (that came later, from my Cowboys-Quarry-Wilderness-Indian Creek phase, and I am toning back down (mostly) now! I vaguely recall a discussion about how they would read in rolling terrain vs our typical flat land course design.

The course had a great look when opened, but I suspect the housing takes away from that.  It did manage a tenth place finish in GD's best new affordable category the year it opened.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Just googled it. It appears that the clubhouse is still down by what was planned as the 17th, and there appears to be no provisions for putting it at the other end of the range, looking at the road layout.  So, my hole numbers are all messed up on the above post for those who  have played it.

It also appears to have a few irrigation problems on some fw, and they have extended to full cart paths, which is as predictable as the sun rising.  While many of my more elaborate bunkers schemes do in fact survive, it appears they downsized my "Z for Zorro" fw bunker on 18 (uh, make that 2) which was one of my faves.

[Kirk Gill]

What is now the 7th is a good double-fairway hole. Downhill, bisected by an arroyo, the fairway to the left which leads down to the green is very tempting, although it cants severely from left to right, so a fade that reaches it will likely roll off into the arroyo anyway. The right fairway is a bit devious, as there is actually a lot more room there than you might think before the arroyo, and my two playing partners both hit what they thought were safe iron shots to a fairly wide fairway, only to leave themselves uneven, downhill lies and 180+ yard shots over the chasm. I aimed for the left fairway, but tried WAY too hard and hit a brutal slice that actually made it to the right fairway and rolled off into the native. Still, I had a much shorter shot from a fairly flat lie. I suppose I was rewarded for a crap shot, but life isn't fair. I would love to hit a few more drives there, just to try out the different options. Not a bunker on the hole, and it doesn't need any.

And the bunkering IS attractive, overall, and especially deep nearer the greens (a bit hard-packed, though, from a maintenance perspective). It just seemed like a lot of them (particularly the fairway bunkers) were shaped like "3's," if that makes any sense. A minor point.

Thank you, Jeff, for the commentary.

[Dan Kelly]

Canterberry, huh?

Well, let's think about that.

What "canters"?

Horses canter!

And what sort of "berry" is produced during all of this cantering that horses do?

Well, let's not think about that.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I think Dan Kelly is really Gary Larsen and did the Far Side.....

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