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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Redell hole?
« on: September 21, 2007, 11:09:10 PM »
I was on site a few days ago, pondering what will be the 17th hole, a long par 3.  The tee will sit on a prominant ridge, but can be shifted up and back a bit.  

A bit over 200 yards away, there is a nice knoll that would set up perfect for a Riviera No. 4 green.  

Beyond that is a small gravel road in a cut and then there is another knoll for a similar green to what was just described, but putting the hole close to 300 yards (but adjacent to 18 tee)

Tonight on the plane home from another project another solution hit me - why not put the green where the road is now, between two knolls.  It would be at about a 45 degree angle, like a Redan, but sunken down between two big ridges (i.e. the road bank cut) like a dell.  It would be open on the right allowing a big running hook to access the green, like the longer Redans.

Any thoughts on a long Dell hole, at 45 degrees vs. approx the 90 degrees of the Dell?

Tomorrow I will share my ideas for a Bi-ran hole!

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 11:09:41 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 12:06:12 AM »
Let me know when you get the vibes for a Hog's Biadelredanaroadteauitz Hole.  I got the perfect land scouted out for it.

Has Cowley or Richardson been sending you samples of their night toddies?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 12:07:30 AM by RJ_Daley »
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 12:07:58 AM »
RJ,

I was also thinking about a shortalp, and Levenbowl......
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 12:09:13 AM »
Jeff, tha ish poshitiverly sinspertational!  hic cup.. ;D
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 12:34:10 AM »
Jeff,
Your Redell hole pretty much sums up the way The Sandy Parlour at Deal once played. You had to aim for one spot which feed it off of the slack of the dune to a green that sloped away. The ball, when reaching the putting surface would more or less funnel and "S" turn its way to the flag thanks to the contours in the green.

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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 12:35:54 AM »
Great stuff guys.....recreationally inspirational.

....bout time you loosened up Brauer....formulas are more fun put thru the ad hoc blender, as in if its tuesday, it must be chow mein....you know what I mean?

RJ will explain it to you.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 08:13:45 AM by paul cowley »
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2007, 04:27:07 PM »
Jeff,

You crack me up!  I like the idea, but I doubt you will build it because you're too much a mainstream, non-controversial kinda guy.

Lester
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2007, 04:30:14 PM »
Lester,

Are you double daring me? ;)
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2007, 04:56:26 PM »
Jeff,

the idea sounds great...as much as I like options and all that other stuff, standing on a tee and actually having to hit THE is great as well.
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2007, 05:00:03 PM »
I like it.

Add a buried pachyderm in the middle of the green, and what have you got?

The Redellephant!
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2007, 05:04:05 PM »
Jeff,

Thats the beauty of you...I don't have to dare you.  You go boy! Do it!

Lester
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 05:04:15 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on September 21, 2007, 11:09:10 PM
I was on site a few days ago, pondering what will be the 17th hole, a long par 3.  The tee will sit on a prominant ridge, but can be shifted up and back a bit.  

A bit over 200 yards away, there is a nice knoll that would set up perfect for a Riviera No. 4 green.  

Beyond that is a small gravel road in a cut and then there is another knoll for a similar green to what was just described, but putting the hole close to 300 yards (but adjacent to 18 tee)

Tonight on the plane home from another project another solution hit me - why not put the green where the road is now, between two knolls.  It would be at about a 45 degree angle, like a Redan, but sunken down between two big ridges (i.e. the road bank cut) like a dell.  It would be open on the right allowing a big running hook to access the green, like the longer Redans.

Any thoughts on a long Dell hole, at 45 degrees vs. approx the 90 degrees of the Dell?


Unfortunately there's no way you could guarantee such a hole would or could be maintained in the firm manner necessary to play as designed.  Too bad, it sounds great.  Maybe the natural drainage would work.
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James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2007, 10:59:14 PM »
Tommy N (and others)

How would you compare the Redell and/or Deal's Sandy Parlour to, say, Rustic Canyon #4?  What if the tee for #4 was placed, say, 20 yards to the right of the current location?

James B
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Ryan Farrow

Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 12:30:39 AM »
Sorry, I could not get past this part.... "there is a nice knoll that would set up perfect for a Riviera No. 4 green."


What was the question again?  ;)
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 08:52:40 AM »
Ryan,

Well, that was my first impression. However, it always pays to think outside the box and examine other, less obvious options for design to arrive at the best product.

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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Redell hole?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 10:24:29 AM »
OT, joy of juxtaposition ...

I like how the threads just lined up:

"No man can be a good architect unless he has..."

The Redell hole?
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016
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