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Forrest Richardson

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Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2007, 03:11:01 PM »
Yes, Bill McB — I have seen that building and it is .... err .... interesting.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2007, 03:40:52 PM »
Michael Blake,

If you read my post you'll note we agree on sales ability - I chastise myself for not communicating as well as I need to, or just the fact that maybe I am not the best for a particular job.  Some in the biz tend to believe the better BS theory.  I malign my own selling skills often, but have designed 50 new courses (about 45 18 hole equivalents) over 23 years, more than most gca's in the same time period, so I must understand something about selling.  I will never be a top dog though.

The design professions have historically been against active selling and promotions, and many professional societies actually banned advertsiing for a long time, leading to the selling "crisis."  Of course, some will always be better than others.

As to defining what is a gca, does anyone else subscribe to the "if it walks like a duck theory?"
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2007, 06:36:42 PM »
Michael Blake,

If you read my post you'll note we agree on sales ability - I chastise myself for not communicating as well as I need to, or just the fact that maybe I am not the best for a particular job.  Some in the biz tend to believe the better BS theory.  I malign my own selling skills often, but have designed 50 new courses (about 45 18 hole equivalents) over 23 years, more than most gca's in the same time period, so I must understand something about selling.  I will never be a top dog though.

The design professions have historically been against active selling and promotions, and many professional societies actually banned advertsiing for a long time, leading to the selling "crisis."  Of course, some will always be better than others.

As to defining what is a gca, does anyone else subscribe to the "if it walks like a duck theory?"

Jeff states;

"I will never be a top dog though" and "if it walks like a duck theory?"

I'm confused [often] ;).... but what is it that you really yearn to be?

a Dog or a Duck?

Whatever you decide will be good, because you are really 'tops with me'.....kind of like those heart candies with the sayings we used to give out on Valentines Day ;)

But now I am being very serious....and as such I would like to state that there are some really excellent writing talents and minds populating this site....in the biz and out....yourself included.

And a couple of good designers too.

Don't sell yourself short. :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 06:44:21 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2007, 07:09:44 PM »
Posted by: Jeff_Brauer

Quote
If you read my post you'll note we agree on sales ability - I chastise myself for not communicating as well as I need to, or just the fact that maybe I am not the best for a particular job.


Jeff,  I did read that entire post a couple of times and I admire your ability to self-critique.  And I've visited your website as well.  You're obviously doing something right with all those courses you've designed.

Posted by: Jeff_Brauer
Quote
The design professions have historically been against active selling and promotions

That doesn't sound like very practical business advice.  

Posted by: Jeff_Brauer
Quote
professional societies actually banned advertsiing for a long time, leading to the selling "crisis."

Makes even less business sense.







paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2007, 07:28:31 PM »
Posted by: Jeff_Brauer

Quote
If you read my post you'll note we agree on sales ability - I chastise myself for not communicating as well as I need to, or just the fact that maybe I am not the best for a particular job.


Jeff,  I did read that entire post a couple of times and I admire your ability to self-critique.  And I've visited your website as well.  You're obviously doing something right with all those courses you've designed.

Posted by: Jeff_Brauer
Quote
The design professions have historically been against active selling and promotions

That doesn't sound like very practical business advice.  

Posted by: Jeff_Brauer
Quote
professional societies actually banned advertsiing for a long time, leading to the selling "crisis."

Makes even less business sense.










...alright Michael...its been a long week, time to relax.

Maybe you might want to try and visit me down in south swampy georgia....we could have fun doing what i call cottonmouth fishing....catching water moccasins with bait and a hook.

Whoever catches one doesn't have to remove the hook....lots of beer...and skimpy girls.

912 222 1616 anytime  :)
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2007, 08:19:43 PM »
Paul,

Not sure what you mean.  

This entire thread has been very thoughtful, engaging, and informative, I thought.

And now someone is telling me to relax?

Is there something you don't approve of in my last post?  





paul cowley

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Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2007, 08:39:40 PM »
Michael....not a problem....I'm just doing what the dictates of being a member of Society compells one to do....no worries...just being a goofball.....I'm serious, do not pay attention to my posts...i try not to and trust me its a tough row to hoe. ;)
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Don_Mahaffey

Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2007, 08:42:48 PM »
Hey Paul,
It's only Monday..what do you mean by long week?

As far as those cotton mouths go...killed one of thum sumbitches this morning on the doorstep to my shop. Left it there to scare the heck out of everyone who followed ;D

It's easy to get the hook out after you thump 'em with a shovel.

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2007, 08:54:07 PM »
Paul, no harm no foul.

It's tough (for me) interpreting context from people you don't know.



paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2007, 09:18:04 PM »
Don.....Monday?....really?

I'm pretty much on flex time, which I can best describe as days that are like pearls set out in a row.....on top of RR tracks that extend out to the horizon.

Glad you got the snake before it could hurt someone.
I generally kill all venomous ones if they are within a half mile of the house....otherwise they can continue on.

....sorry to be so OT....so back to the main thread. :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 09:19:53 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Don_Mahaffey

Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2007, 10:09:24 PM »
Paul,
I hear ya...2 straight months without 3 consecutive dry days followed by a little planting and a direct hit from a tropical storm...the days of the week hardly matter anymore. If it’s dry, we work...hard...trying to catch time that is long gone.  

We built some boot scrapers...lots of mud lately...and put them at each entrance to our shop...the little 2 footer was very much at home this morning relaxing on the scraper at the entrance to my door. I'm glad I voted for the exterior lighting.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2007, 02:58:25 AM »
This thread reminds me of a book I read recently.  The FountainHead by Ayn Rand...some interesting conversation in these posts.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2007, 07:25:24 AM »
OK...one last post before I go back ON T.
More of a public service announcement;

Don...your post reminded me of the numerous workplace encounters with venomous snakes that we have down here in the SE.....especially with  pallets of sod that are left out overnight. Depending on the time of year, snakes crawl under them for warmth or heat relief and I've had numerous encounters with them after having thrown off the last pieces of sod and am picking up the palette....so many that I keep my feet out of the way as much distance as I can when flipping them up, and be ready to dance! I let the amigos know to be wary.

Well it seems to be a nice new day......so back to GCA, or when is GCA GCA?....... :)

paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2007, 09:02:38 AM »
Paul,

I guess you aren't asking "when is a snake a snake?"  We all know the answer to that one, and by the time I recite, "Red touches yellow, you're a dead fellow, red touches black, poision they lack" I really just get the heck out of there and take no chances.

Even further OT, but there are a long traditions of snake scares in golf construction. We have tied dead rattlers to the inside of the tool box on a truck so an unsuspecting worker opening it will have snake "pop up."  I stopped that, fearing I would give someone a heart attack.

On the plus side, when my son had his sixth birthday, and after every other kid in his class had elaborate parties, I was able to take his friends out to a construction site and let them each drive (with help) a bulldozer, and his was the party of the year.  

The bulldozer is of course a perfect ride for kids of all ages, but as the operator was showing one kid how he knocked down trees, they found a bed of rattlers in the roots, which he killed by dropping the blade on them.  We packaged them up in plastic bags so each kid could have a dead rattler as a party favor.  They were estatic, but the mom's were not so amused when we got home....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:When is golf course architecture golf course architecture???
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2007, 11:13:55 AM »
Jeff.....great stories ;D, might deserve a thread all its own....but don't get me started cause I am trying to get this thread back after steering it in the ditch.

Or maybe we're through....last one turn out the lights. ;)

paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca