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Jim Colton

New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« on: July 30, 2007, 04:26:57 PM »
My annual golf buddy trip this year is in New Mexico.  Below is the itinerary.  Any pointers or general advice on the following courses?  Also, we're making the trip as a threesome.  We have everything pre-booked and prepaid through that  santafetrail, but if there are any GCA'ers interested and available, I'm guessing we could call the courses and add a fourth.

Wed 8/8: fly to ABQ, UNM Championship
Thur 8/9: Paa-Ko Ridge (36+)
Fri 8/10: Black Mesa (36+)
Sat 8/11: Twin Warriors (36 or 54)
Sun 8/12: Sandia, fly home
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 04:28:00 PM by Jim Colton »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 04:30:03 PM »
You seem to have it pretty much covered. Will you report back on the new 9 at Paa-Ko? We haven't heard much about it here.

Matt_Ward

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 05:39:37 PM »
Jim:

Do yourself a favor -- be sure to have NO LESS than 54 holes of golf at Black Mesa. The others are good -- particularly Paa-Ko -- I favor the new nine plus the original back nine as my two favorites.

Enjoy your time in the Land of Enchantment ...

Andy Troeger

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 06:31:48 PM »
Jim,
I should be able to join you on the weekend at least for one day, most likely Saturday. Wish I did not have to work Thursday and Friday, I love Paa-Ko and Black Mesa. You'll really enjoy those two. The other three are all solid as well, but Thurs/Fri will be the best golf.

Will send you an IM shortly once I make sure I don't have anything else going on.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 06:45:20 PM by Andy Troeger »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 09:54:16 AM »
Jim - here is some discussion from a trip I took last fall.  Enjoy your trip!

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=24621;start=msg485059#msg485059

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 12:15:23 PM »
At our land of enchantment outing we had some very good meals at The Shed (casual) and The Pink Adobe.

Decide which chile you like better - green or red.

When you are at Black Mesa - say hello to Pat and ask him about the area.  It is beautiful.

Drive From Paa-Ko to Black Mesa on the back county road.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 12:17:59 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2007, 12:27:36 PM »
I second Mike's restaurant recommendations, as I have been back to The Shed after visiting in the Land of Enchantment Tour and enjoyed the food.  Pink Adobe was great as well.

Cheers,
Brad

Jim Dawson

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 05:30:41 PM »
I will be taking a trip there this weekend.
We will ahve 4 couples and will be playing:
Sandia, Black Mesa and Paa Ko Ridge.
I will give you a current update on Tuesday.
Thanks,
JD

Jim Colton

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2007, 02:29:57 PM »
Well, I'm back from my 5-day, 9-round golf binge in New Mexico.  Great weather and great golf (and good value).  What more could you want?

I don't know how much I can add to what's already been discussed here on Paa-Ko and Black Mesa, but both lived up to my very high expectations.  I thought Paa-Ko was extremely difficult.  At least it was for me.  It's definitely an approach shot and short game course, and the course exposed my weaknesses in those two categories.  I honestly can't think of any weak holes, although I like the original 18 better than the new 9.  My only complaint was I would've liked it better if the course was playing a little firmer and faster.

I really enjoyed Black Mesa.  Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it.  We jumped at the opportunity to play 54 there, and with each round I learned to appreciate it more (and score a lot better in the process...I cut 12 strokes off between rounds 1 & 2).  At first glance, it's a very intimidating golf course, but once you figure out where to go (and where not to go), it's clear that it's much more user friendly.  I love how it played firm and fast and allowed for approach shots that took the slopes to feed closer to the hole.  It made for a very fun day.

The other courses were definitely a full notch below by comparison.  I had the privelege of meeting and playing with Andy Troeger out at Twin Warriors.  I feared for my life while playing the 6th and 7th holes, two parallel par fours where most golfers are bound to go into the wrong fairway (perhaps even by choice...I think the optimal play on 6 is to play over to 7).  UNM is a solid, old school golf course that is a great choice to either start or end the trip given its proximity to the airport.  A lot of tough, back and forth par fours on the front nine, but the courses gets a little more interesting on the back.  Sandia was just okay...the highlight of the day was seeing a rattlesnake crossing the 13th fairway.

Albuquerque doesn't seem to get enough respect (outside this forum) as a quality golf destination, but I definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't been there.  In all honesty, however, as much as I like Paa-Ko and Black Mesa, I'm not sure when I'll ever get back there.  There are too many other places that I need to hit up first.  I think the area needs one or two more sensational courses in order to make it into our rota.

ps. we called the Shed, but it was an hour and a half wait.

Andy Troeger

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2007, 06:25:55 PM »
Jim,
I enjoyed meeting you and Jim and Jeff as well. I still wish I could have joined for your Paa-Ko Ridge or Black Mesa rounds, but so it goes. You are just fortunate on #6 and 7 that I was in your group, that made it a little safer since you did not have to worry about my errant drives  ;)

I would pretty well echo your thoughts regarding the courses. Two great ones, with the others being good but a level below.

billb

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 03:24:36 PM »
Perfect timing on this thread, thanks guys! I am planning an Albuquerque trip for last September now I know where to play. Question: how does Pinon Hills in Farmington compare with the ABQ area courses?

Andy Troeger

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 06:34:49 PM »
Bill,
My order would go...

1. Paa-Ko
1a. Black Mesa

(big gap)

3. UNM Championship
4. Pinon Hills
5. Pueblo de Cochiti (btw ABQ & Santa Fe)

(small gap)
Sandia, Santa Ana, Twin Warriors, Marty Sanchez, Taos.

billb

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 01:07:30 PM »
Thanks Andy.

This is a road trip for me, I also plan on visiting Chaco Canyon and Canyon de Chelly, then driving back through Utah and playing The Hideout.

Are there any other "hidden gems" worth playing in the Four Corners area?

Bill

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 01:31:11 PM »


Are there any other "hidden gems" worth playing in the Four Corners area?

Bill

Bill, Conquistador in Cortez, co. is a must see if you are a student of GCA.

Up north over the hill in Delta is Phelps' Devil's Thumb not exactly the 4 corners, but worth a side trip if time allows.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 01:32:11 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

billb

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 02:16:27 PM »
Adam:

I lived in Durango for 4 years and never played Conquistador, I will have to give it a try.

I will be headed back to Denver from the Four Corners area so Devils Thumb is not out the way. I did play there a few years back in a ridiculous wind, I might have to try it again on this trip.  

Any other must plays in that area? I have not played Redlands Mesa, there seems to be conflicting opinions of this course. I assume you have played it, your thoughts?

I will probably play Battlement Mesa, I have always enjoyed that golf course.

Bill

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 05:45:20 PM »
Bill,

When are you headed out?  I'm headed down to Moab this weekend and will be playing The Hideout.

I've played Redlands Mesa and I think its definitly worth a play if you are in the area....

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 05:50:59 PM »
Redlands Mesa is easily worth the look. I'm sure you have played the course in Durango. Not terribly great gCA but from what I gathered a tremedous club atmosphere. Hillcrest? BTW, their new GM is from no place other than...Ferdinada(sp? Beach

Conquistador is a museum piece of construction mindsets and techniques since the front was built in '61 and the back in '81. All of it is a Press Maxwell design.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Andy Troeger

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 06:03:45 PM »
Bill,
I would certainly recommend Redlands Mesa or Lakota Canyon if you end up back on I-70. Dalton Ranch in Durango is nice enough, the course itself is rather flat but the scenery is great. There's a lot of courses in the mountains in Colorado, but seems like a lot of them are private. I'm hoping to get to the Rio Grande Club at some point. Not really sure where that even is though :)

billb

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 07:29:51 PM »
Bill,

When are you headed out?  I'm headed down to Moab this weekend and will be playing The Hideout.

I've played Redlands Mesa and I think its definitly worth a play if you are in the area....

Kalen,

Not until late September.

Bill

billb

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 07:32:20 PM »
Bill,
I would certainly recommend Redlands Mesa or Lakota Canyon if you end up back on I-70. Dalton Ranch in Durango is nice enough, the course itself is rather flat but the scenery is great. There's a lot of courses in the mountains in Colorado, but seems like a lot of them are private. I'm hoping to get to the Rio Grande Club at some point. Not really sure where that even is though :)

How does Redlannds Mesa and Lakota Canyon compare to Devil's Thumb?

There are some daily fee courses in the Colorado mountains, IMHO they are way overpriced and suffer from poor conditions due to the high altitude and short growing seasons.

Bill

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 07:41:06 PM »
Jim & Rick's styles diiffer considerably.

Lakota is definitely the most wow with 1100 feet of elevation change.

Redlands isnt far behind but is a bit more spiritual with it's surrounds on the backnine.

Devil's thumb is a low profile municipal that traverses two distinctly different types of properties.

All three are indeed fun and great in their own way.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2007, 01:24:31 AM »
Just got back from ABQ/Santa Fe on Sunday, and will do my best not to beat a dead horse.

For what it's worth, I would like to know of another area that offers a 100 mile radius of such solid, affordable public courses.

We played the usual suspects, in this order:
Sandia-18
Paa-Ko-36
UNM-18
Twin-30
Black Mesa-36 (The treehouse was right, it was not nearly enough)

Black Mesa's reputation being what it is, I decided to save it for last. In theory this was a good idea because nothing that followed would be a let down, and a bad idea because some in the group were beat, sunburned, and getting over altitude sickness (one from Lafayette, LA who incidentally spent his Sunday in the hospital).

In brief:
Sandia was actually a suprise although not earth shaking. Some fun short par fours and better than expected green contouring.

Paa Ko featured some beautiful vistas and interesting holes, but seemed somewhat repetitive, especially the long par threes (the only exception being #4). In addition, due to the previous night's rainfall, it was plug city everywhere.

UNM South was a brutal beating, easily the most difficult of the trip. It seemed like every par four approach was long and uphill.

Twin was in great shape, had some fun holes but also had the most flat, boring set of greens when compared to the others. Oddly enough, my favorite holes all featured blind tee shots.  

Black Mesa was head, shoulders, knees and toes above the rest. What made the place stand out from the rest was the width of the playing corridors. For UNM, Sandia, Twin, and Paa-Ko the corridors were wide enough but had 15-20 yards of rough on either side of the fairway. At Black Mesa, if you actually hit it on grass, there was always an opportunity to pull off an approach to the green. The greens had more character than anything else we played, and the vistas were easily as good if not better than the others. The whole place just oozed golf without any other trappings. It was very natural and in no way contrived. My only gripe is about the bathroom. One sit down turlet burl and seven men stuffed with last night's green chile makes for an uncomfortable first tee experience.

Many thanks to Mr. Pat Brockwell who took time out of his day to play the back nine with us. He opened our eyes to the many avenues of play that the course provides (He ushered my father around like a sherpa). He also took the time to delight us with tales of Black Mesa over lunch. It was the highlight of the trip for both me and my dad.







Matt_Ward

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 10:48:13 AM »
Wyatt:

I'd be curious to know how you would place Black Mesa among all the courses you have ever played.

I'll respond after your reply.

Thanks ...

matt

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 11:46:08 AM »
Matt,

My answer needs to be put in proper context. I have not seen many of the courses that are discussed here on a daily basis. I've never been across the pond or down under, and I have never played a Mackenzie or Tillinghast course. I'm not trying to provide a barometer, I just didn't want to list every course I have ever played. All of the notable courses I have played are modern. Engh, Fazio, Nicklaus etc.

Having said that, I would easily put Black Mesa in my Top 3, which were previously reserved for the courses at Bandon.

Wyatt

Matt_Ward

Re:New Mexico 8/8 - 8/12 , any advice?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2007, 12:23:33 PM »
Wyatt:

Thanks -- given that you have played all three courses at Bandon plus Black Mesa if you had 20 rounds of golf how would you divide them up.

Try to avoid providing ties because it defeats the purpose in ascertaining which is the more preferred.

P.S. I'd be most curious to know how you would assess the overall playability of Black Mesa -- not just for you but for the guys who played it with you. There's been a few people who have barked about the course not being very playable save for the likes of better players. Thanks ...


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