Biggest surprises

« **on:** July 30, 2007, 02:45:32 PM »

I was asked the other day what the biggest surprise course was that I had played or what was a course that I knew nothing about that blew me away. At the time, I was stumped, but after this past week we have a winner...Northland CC in Duluth Minnesota. I was totally unaware of this course and totally blown away by it. You want firm and fast, they have it. You want interesting movement in your fairways and greens, they have it. You want green sites that allow the ground game, they have it. I loved the course.

Anyone else out there play anywhere that was a total surprise?

« **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:58:51 PM »

Jim, NCR South surprised me...I haven't had much experience with Dick Wilson courses, and when I think of him i think of Cog Hill...but NCR has native grasses, elevation to it, etc....a wonderful place I thought

« **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:22:40 PM »

I know I've probably overstated this recently when I played there, but I really was surprised by Soule Park. It isn't a "WOW" course, but I was pleasantly surprised. I heard from some that it wasn't that great, but I thought it was alot of fun. Pretty solid Bell jr routing and wonderful Hanse/Wagner bunkers and greens.

Back when I knew absolutely nothing about courses, I played Pacific Grove on a lark. Needless to say, I thought I had found a hidden gem. I was not expecting to find what I found. A course that makes you feel warm and fuzzy reflecting back on it. Obviously, all here know the course, but to someone who wasn't into architecture at the time, even I could tell it was special.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:41:00 PM »

Sean -

That is a good point, this site does make "discoveries" very difficult.

Also on my Minnesota trip I had the pleasure of playing Golden Valley. It was another pleasant surprise. Great greens, great bunkers and a lot of fun to play. As with any Tillinghast, don't be above 4:00 or 8:00. While Northland is rated highly, Golden Valley wasn't, but should be. It was a VERY good trip though.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:05:57 PM »

Northland is terrific - great course combined with incredible views. It is also an amazing achievement to route a course over terrain that steep and make a thoroughly enjoyable, walkable course. I understand conditioning has improved recently as well. It has always been adequate but a bit rough in the past.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:08:37 PM »

Quote from: Jim Franklin on July 30, 2007, 03:41:00 PM

Also on my Minnesota trip I had the pleasure of playing Golden Valley. It was another pleasant surprise. Great greens, great bunkers and a lot of fun to play. As with any Tillinghast, don't be above 4:00 or 8:00. While Northland is rated highly, Golden Valley wasn't, but should be. It was a VERY good trip though.

Golden Valley is rated highly on many lists in the state and deservedly so. I hope the current modifications that they are planning do not detract from the course.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:10:23 PM »

Dalhousie.

« **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Jason Topp on July 30, 2007, 04:05:57 PM

Northland is terrific - great course combined with incredible views. It is also an amazing achievement to route a course over terrain that steep and make a thoroughly enjoyable, walkable course. I understand conditioning has improved recently as well. It has always been adequate but a bit rough in the past.

Jason -

If you are looking for plush green grass, Northland is not for you, but if you don't mind a little brown, then this place is for you. I told the members we played with that I loved that brown look and they seemed pleased. One of the guys also said they were taking soil samples and the root structures were much better and healthier. The fairways reminded me of Scotland links. A little brown, firm, and nice movement. Not many flat lies.

You are right in that the routing was terrific. There were quite a few different loops you could play. And the walk didn't seem too bad.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:26:18 PM »

La Purisima and Hunter Ranch on the Cali central coast are surprises that I found before ever posting on this site and still don't get a lot of print.
Barona Creek and Rustic were great finds once, but now are pretty well known.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:54:59 PM »

Jim,

Rockport Country Club. Fantastic green complexes, especially radical for what the course is (shortish development course) and the time it was built (1986). If done by an experienced designer, you'd say he showed a lot of courage. But since it was done by a youthful designer, you say he showed a prodigious talent. Indeed, you will see many features for which he later became famous, but which here he did for the very first time.

Put it near a city and it would be beat absolutely to death on here. To everyone: if you're ever near it, see it!

Mark

« **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:58:39 PM »

My first thought is Grandote Peaks in La Veta, CO. Its pretty well in the middle of nowhere, although its not too far from Pueblo or Trinidad. Weiskopf/Morrish design, about $25 bucks in early May. Good use of a creek on a fair number of holes and interesting routing that goes in and out of some open and wooded areas. Just enough terrain to spice things up. Not a high roller type of place, but I'd sure go back.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:24:21 AM »

Wheatley Hills/Long Island

« **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:29:23 AM »

Victor Hills (North) in Victor, NY. designed by Pete Craig and the owner Jack Diametti.

It was one of those "meet the boyfriend" weekends up at Jen's daughters college, and I was going to take him over to play Ravenwood by Robin Nelson on late afternoon.

They were having a tournament, and with the day rapidly dwindling, stopped into the first course we found.

With the low budget clubhouse and very cheap price to play I didn't expect much.

The moraines, kettles, eskers, and other glacial landforms were really super cool and used well on the course. Some of the features (presumably by the owner) were a bit amateurish, but I couldn't believe how much golf was in such a modest little package.

Also...Long Shadow.

I had expected a lot, but it still surprised me.

« **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2007, 09:29:59 AM »

I have played many "pleasant surprise" courses that I knew little or nothing about before playing them. Some of them have since become pretty well known and discussed on GCA: Those include: Boca Rio, Mountain Lake, Lookout Mountain, Ocean Hammock, Riverdale Dunes and Cherokee Plantation.

There are others that have rarely, if ever, been discussed here and are little known outside their region. Some are very good, and all are certainly worth a visit if you are in the area.

Texarkana, Arkansas CC (Langford and Moreau)
Squire Creek, Chaudran, LA (Fazio)
Deep Springs, Madicson, NC (Ellis Maples)
Mount Mitchell GC, Burnsville, NC (Fred Hawtree)
Pine Crest GC, Lumberton, NC (first nine by local engineer with rurmored input from Ross. Second rumored to be by Dick Wilson. Nobody seems to know for sure)
Aiken GC, Aiken, SC (possible Ross. Not known for sure)
Spanish Oaks, Bee Cave, TX (Bobby Weed)
Woodcreek Farms, Elgin, SC (Fazio)
Lakes Entrance, Australia
Luftness New, East Lothian, Scotland (Tom Morris)

I have also had many disappointments, which I won't mention.

I invite comments from anyone familiar with the courses I have mentioned in the second list.

Jim Lewis

« **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:39:14 AM »

I don't know if I've seen any great "surprises" this year so far, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the new bunkering at TPC Boston, and should make great watching come the Fed/Ex playoffs at the end of the Tour year. The course went from "yadda yadda TPC could be anywhere," to a layout where the player has to think.

For example, they changed hole #4 from a boring dogleg right of 435 to a short 4 of 298 (with an unlisted tee at 330-ish) with a fun, shallow push-up green surrounded by bunkers and swales.

They also changed #18 from a regular bomb-and-iron par 5 to a hole with diagonal left to right bunkers at 250, 270, and 310 from the tee. Tour pros will have to think this year, and to bail left and only carry the short bunker will probably prohibit going for the green in two (it is fronted by a 50-yd long wetlands area).

« **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:40:50 AM »

oops...I thought the question inferred "this year".

« **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:41:36 AM »

Jim,
Deep Springs? Both my father and I found the course memorable for its lack of memorability. What did you find to your liking?

« **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:44:08 AM »

That's cool Mike. Mine happened to be this year and last week to be exact. I look forward to some more surprises in the future as well.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:50:06 AM »

Cottonwood Hills in Hutchinson, KS. I just did not expect such an exceptionally difficult course in the middle of KS.
A real ball breaker.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:52:20 AM »

Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on July 30, 2007, 06:54:59 PM

Jim,

Rockport Country Club. Fantastic green complexes, especially radical for what the course is (shortish development course) and the time it was built (1986). If done by an experienced designer, you'd say he showed a lot of courage. But since it was done by a youthful designer, you say he showed a prodigious talent. Indeed, you will see many features for which he later became famous, but which here he did for the very first time.

Put it near a city and it would be beat absolutely to death on here. To everyone: if you're ever near it, see it!

Mark

I could not agree more, Rockport is a gem!

« **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:21:10 PM »

Sam that's two of us - TWO!!!

I have wanted to start a thread, but my photos are embarrassingly fuzzy. (operator error plus high humidity)

But maybe I will anyway, next week when I return home.

Mark

« **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2007, 02:25:48 AM »

Quote from: jim_lewis on July 31, 2007, 09:29:59 AM

There are others that have rarely, if ever, been discussed here and are little known outside their region. Some are very good, and all are certainly worth a visit if you are in the area.

Lakes Entrance, Australia

I invite comments from anyone familiar with the courses I have mentioned in the second list.

Jim Lewis

Jim

I haven't played Lakes Entrance, but I believe it is a Vern Morcom design. He was Mick Morcom's son, and a prolific 'layer-out' of courses post WWII. Vern's courses often have doglegs where the distance to the turning point is shorter than ideal today. Some have (?had) wonderful bunkering, befitting the Morcom heritage, if Vern was involved in the construction.

I think Lakes Entrance has popped up in Australian 'top 100' lists in years gone by, albeit in the higher numbers.

Lakes Entrance is on the coast perhaps 200 miles east of melbourne (my uneducated guess). It was recently inundated with rain/floods.

James B

« **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:54:49 AM »

Another surprise: Suburban Golf Club/New Jersey

« **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2007, 06:07:34 AM »

Auchterderran--a course I had always managed to avoid in our Winter League matches, but was very pleasantly surprised when I finally played it. A heathland course with interesting greens and lots of quirk in the deepest darkest parts of Fife coal mining country.

« **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2007, 08:57:51 AM »

Jim -

Tell me more abut Aiken GC. I'm up that way frequently and played Palmetto several times, but it never crossed my mind to look at Aiken GC.

Bob

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