[Matt_Ward]

I have to ask the following ... given course set-ups for the majors how relevant is the continued use of drivers. I mean you can see that the better players are routinely clubbing down -- save for the par-5's on occasion -- but not even then -- in order to achieve the optimum position.

Is the driver going the way of the dodo bird ?

Frankly, with Southern Hills coming up I don't see much of a change in this philosophy.

How say the group and what might be the remedy ?

[David Stamm]

How say the group and what might be the remedy ?

I don't see a solution outside setup/design changes other than rolling back the ball. The ball is the cheapest and makes the most sense to me.

[David_Tepper]

Matt -

To repeat what I have written on another thread, didn't Peter Thompson win multiple British Opens teeing off almost exclusively with a 3-wood? Didn't Jack Nicklaus & Johnny Miller win British Opens teeing off frequently with a 1-iron?

As is so often the case in golf, history repeats itself regularly.

DT

[Phil McDade]

I note with interest that Sergio put himself behind the 8-ball yesterday on 18 by foresaking his driver and leaving himself with a very tough 3-iron approach. That was protecting a lead. Forced to play catch-up, he went with driver and came close to a birdie.

Maybe circumstances dictate club usage moreso than set-up.

[Jim Franklin]

Those guys are so good it doesn't matter what club they use if they play from the fairway (for the most part). They hit the drivers so well, but if there is a slight chance of being in a bunker, hazard, rough, then they eliminate that outcome and play. You are right that the driver is not a relevant club when these guys have to keep it in play. And, for me, that's a shame.

[Phil Benedict]

They didn't show Paddy's tee shots very often, but I bet he hit driver on 10 of the 15 driving holes.  Sergio used his driver fewer times but I'm not sure he was the norm. His finishing hole exposed the risk of keeping your driver in the bag.

The weirdest case of hitting an iron was Tiger on the par-5 6th.  After consecutive birdies, scrambling for a par on that hole was a real momentum killer. I wonder what he was thinking.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

Driver isn't that important anymore because many players are SO long that they can hit an iron off the tee and still have short iron approach shots.  But, I don't know that the course set-ups have much to do with it.  Even if the holes were wider, there is little advantage for them to hit driver on most holes, they'll be hitting a wedge approach in any case.

[Sean_A]

I think that most players feel they have a better chance of making par from a greenside bunker than from fairway bunkers.  Hence why risk finding a hazard from the tee?

Ciao

[Pat Brockwell]

The driver is the player on the tee hitting the first shot on a par 4 or 5.  Driving is very relevant, it just isn't always done with a #1 metal/wood.  To me seeing players choose a 3 metal/wood or long iron means that the design is dictating strategy.  When players pull the #1 metal/wood 14 times in a round you have an unimaginative design, and that should'nt happen at a major, IMO.

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

Twenty years ago the best players I knew INSISTED that they ought to be able to pull driver on every par-4 and par-5, and be rewarded if they did it well.  There was hardly ever a hole where they hit an iron from the tee unless it was mown narrow.  

The difference between then and today is entirely about length, equipment, or wherever else you give the credit.  If we could build a course which rewarded players for hitting driver well, that would be a great design.  You just can't do it anymore.

[Pat Brockwell]

Tom, A player is always allowed to swing driver, and attempt to reap a reward, but the smart ones pick and choose.  I'm curious why you say you can't reward a well hit driver on every hole anymore. I like the idea that a well designed hole tempts a player to do something he shouldn't do...or makes him think about things he oughtn't think about, but doesn't really dictate strategy or club selection.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Don't driveable par 4s and gambling par 5s encourage hitting driver?

And how many drivers does a player hit in a round at Augusta, even after the changes?

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

I based my conclusion on having watched what were once considered the toughest driving courses in the world (Muirfield, Oakland Hills, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Carnoustie), all considerably lengthened, and seeing the best players hit driver on less than half the holes.

[Pat Brockwell]

Tom, So, because guys can hit second shots so far, the choices off the tee have increased and the risk/reward shot is the approach, not the drive,no?

[jeffwarne]

Twenty years ago plenty of top professionals hit 3 woods and 1 irons.
Nicklaus was famous for his strategy, despite being one of the best drivers in history.
Lyle used 1 iron quite often, particularly at Augusta of all places.
You may see more drivers now because previously 320-390 yard par 4's weren't driveable and v grooves made rough play like...well, rough.

Of course there's more choices today because the ball's 15-20% longer and the courses are only 5% longer.

What i find amusing is to read on this site how easy it is to hit today's balls and drivers straight, yet turn on the TV and Tiger and others are in the woods quite often and using irons and fairway clubs when real trouble lurks.
I certainly don't find it much easier to hit driver in the fairway as I relied on spin to control and curve the ball and I think many suffer from this phenomena.

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

Forgive me in having seen 25+ years of major championship play firsthand but when I see courses designed with severe bottlenecks (see OH / South as one example) -- and now with Augusta going that same route -- the payoff for players using driver has been considerably narrowed (no pun intended).

I can remember reading Jack's account of the set-up for the '66 British Open and how he decided to do likewise at the '72 event but when it became apparent that his ultra-conservative attack plan was not working then the Bear turned up the volume with an aggressive attack -- using his driver and making some key putts.

You have to have designs that reward players who do take out the driver and give them a tangible rewards for doing so.

So much of today's modern game is based on set-ups that discourage driver or make it impractical to even consider it.

Power is part of the game but world class players are not village idiots and will pull out the club that gives them the best opportunity to score lower.

The driver should not be forced out because of the stupidity of the people setting up the venues. To be fair -- hats off to Mike Davis of the USGA in setting up Oakmont -- especially in the last round when the tees were moved up for holes like #2, #14 and #17, to name just three.

[Mike Sweeney]

Matt,

Well you obviously need a little deeper knowledge. How about Merion in 1981 or before? I doubt Bobby Jones hit driver to win the Grand Slam on #11.

In 1981 very few drivers were hit on 1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 15 and probably 16. Please tell us how this will change for the next US Open at the new longer Merion?

[Joe Hancock]

I don't see it so much as whether or not todays best players need a driver, it's the fact that they have a driver as a choice that keeps it relevant. Ask Phil Mickelson if it is still relevant, or Tiger...

Having a driver as an option still keeps the decision to use it in play.

Joe

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

The driver -- whether it be in 1930 or in recent times needs to be fundamentally a part of what takes place at the major championship level. When you have this phobic fear that power has to be hi-jacked by corset-type fairways you make the game more suited for one type of player.

I have no idea what will happen at the US Open when it comes to Merion. I do think that Mike David deserves plenty of credit in making sure that Oakmont could provide plenty of versatility in baiting the world's best to pull out the big stick more times than they normally would.

[Mike Sweeney]

The driver -- whether it be in 1930 or in recent times needs to be fundamentally a part of what takes place at the major championship level.

Well I would like some of the West Coast guys chime in here. Olympic and Pebble would seem to be courses that do not demand driver on every hole. I have only played Pebble. How about The Old Course. Different courses for different horses.

Isn't this mentality what got Augusta into its current status as a bombers course?

[TEPaul]

Matt:

In my opinion, the driver is going to become increasingly less necessary so long as particularly good players are capable of reaching particularly long par 4s in two shots fairly easily with something less than a driver off the tee.

We have to remember that the elite player is driving the ball between 30 and 50 yards farther today than the elite player was 50 or even 25 years ago. Add to that the fact that they hit their woods and all their irons about 15-35 yards per club farther today than elite players did 50 or even 25 years ago.

Just add up those realities and particularly long par 4s today would need to be anywhere from 45 to 85 yards longer today than they were 50 or even 25 years ago.

Is it any wonder then that drivers are not as necessary for good players today as they were 50 or even 25 years ago?

[David_Tepper]

Mike Sweeney -

The 1983 US Open at Olympic was a long time ago, but I distinctly remember Scott Simpson hitting irons & fairway woods off the tee on a number of the par-4's (not just #7 & #18). I recall him in a press conference saying he hit a 2-iron on #2. However, the fairways were very firm and fast that year.

DT

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

What was wrong with the old Augusta ?

The idea of the course originally by Jones / Mackenzie was to pattern itself after TOC -- wide fairways. The "new" Augusta has simply thrown that formulas and heritage under the bus.

[Pat Brockwell]

The driver is relevant as a scoring club, even if it's not used on every hole.  The relevancy is not in the frequency of use, but in the number of strokes it saves or costs.  A ski racer may not slice a perfectly carved arc on every turn and still be fastest.  A baseball pitcher  throws fastballs and changeups.  In tennis there are aces and dropshots. The driver is relevant as long as it's one of the fourteen that goes to the course every day.  On a great golf course a good driving game is necessary, but not sufficient, to play at a high level.

[Matt_Cohn]

I thought this was the age of Bomb and Gauge.

Has it disappeared after one year?

This is a massive contradiction. Explain it.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()