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Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« on: July 08, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »
A short time ago, I had the privilege of touring the next 18 holes under construction at Trump National in Bedminster NJ. This 18, designed by Tommy Fazio (Tom's nephew), appears to be a striking compliment to what many believe is the Donald's best 18 holes of golf within his empire. One look reveals what may well unseat the neighboring "Old" course off its present throne.

  Built mostly to the immediate West of the "Old" course on a series of wavy clay and soil benches (with a few very interesting, appealingly small and unique holes to the East), young Fazio has placed seemingly smaller and more strategic green sites at the ends of natural valleys and saddles that promise greater wind exposure and fewer tree-lined corridors. Collectively, the bulk of the new layout, doesn't scream parkland, nor should it be confused with links-style. Due to the extraordinary local & state water-use laws, multiple ponds will leave their mark as both hazards and aesthetic markers. I'm only praying, as most of us would, that the Donald foregoes his usual predisposition for artificial waterfalls and does his best to make the H2O look as natural as possible.

   Innate elevation movements are preserved and serve well for green and tee sites. A few holes nearly complete reflect the different sensibility of the younger Fazio with non-template bunkering and smaller, more strategic greens areas. This is a course that, at first glance, appears to be the match-play style sister to its larger and tougher, more grandiose, stroke-play brother. It was impossible to get a full reslution of every feature on the New course, but the grassed hole look glorious and different than what anyone might have suspected. Multiple tees are designed in and thus I await future visits to adequately judge the full range of shot values that will evolve.   I suspect the members gripes about the course being too tough won't be as numerous on this new layout. The USGA Boys & Girls Amateur Championship, to be held here in 2009, will help to confirm or deny that moniker.

  A few words about Trump's existing "Old" Course. Under the hand of the very capable Grounds staff, led by the verifiably talented Greg Nicholl and his hard-working staff, many of my former complaints about the layout have been remedied. No longer are the forced carries pinched between entirely too narrow openings and good tree removal and turf maintenance have rendered the track playing its best since inception. The eighth green was enlarged into a real boomerang shape and now yields a larger and tough back left pin-able area. The very large and strategically-positioned bunkers are quite possibly the most playable modern bunkers in the state. They remain huge and apparent hazards, but yield evenly-matched results with well-struck sand-shots. The fairways are fast and firm and a mis-angled shot slides easily into the neighboring dense rough. It's a full and fair test.

  Some previously major flaws have become somewhat more minor. The unreceptive and flawed design of the 16th green (near totally unreceptive to anything above a 6-7 iron) and diabolically mis-designed 7th green (should have lower tees, or a back right reverse redan expansion) have begun to play a little softer, but are still in need of more of Greg's finesse. Maybe a data pull on the Donald's record on those holes might speed that along??? :~). I'm not slamming Tom Fazio here, but these two holes fit better at a Ridge at Back Brook (with severe playability issues desired and designed-in) than they do on this course.

   Most importantly, the course has matured into an elite and competitive Northeast venue with outstanding playability and its newest adjacent addition might well be an instant and through success in an already highly competitive surrounding.
 :D
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 08:47:57 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2007, 11:01:49 PM »
Steve, how much of Trumpdom is really his money as oppossed to carried interest or reversionary position etc?

Mike Sweeney

Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 06:00:54 AM »
Steve, how much of Trumpdom is really his money as oppossed to carried interest or reversionary position etc?

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=110047&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=525661&highlight=

http://tinyurl.com/2w8lqy

Tiger,

I would guess that he had to put up 20-30%.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 06:02:16 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 08:00:40 AM »
Mike that is 20 to 30 % more than I thought, unless he gets it back in fes and other forms of promotion. He does have the gift of hype which I must confess is a red flag to me.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 08:03:00 AM »
  Funny you should ask.

  It is common knowledge out in these parts, as Mike Sweeney noted, that Trump used Textron financing for the acqusition and completion of the initial facility. Insiders have told me he's financing the construction of his "New" course internally, but I can't confirm that. It's quite conventional for all kinds of golf course construction to work with Textron. They are, by and far, the largest golf course construction financier in today's marketplace.

   I don't know what the final budget will come in at but, beyond the excavation for the necessary drainage pond(s), not that much dirt is being moved. The saddles, benches and natural land movements seem well intergrated with the course design and besides shaping & smoothing, don't appear to be articificially mounded to any large extent.

  Of course, we'll all have to wait for the Wards and Vostinak's to confirm just how good  ;) this course is or isn't, but IMHO, it's a sharp design with lots of potential.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 08:38:58 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 08:10:35 AM »
Mike that is 20 to 30 % more than I thought, unless he gets it back in fes and other forms of promotion. He does have the gift of hype which I must confess is a red flag to me.

Tiger,

   While I am not commenting on the value nor the hyperbole, Trump at Bedminster has over 250 members and appears to be more than financially solvent with a viable future business plan.(unlike the self-financed, head-scratching, insecure club up the road that replaces it's golf staff every season :o)
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 09:20:05 AM »
Steve--

I agree with that the new course at Trump Bedminster should be excellent.  IMHO that land is better than what the original is built upon and I like Tommy's work.  It will be interesting to see the finished product.

I will discuss the short par four thread later.....

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 09:35:43 AM »
Steve - when will the course open?  thanks
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike_Cirba

Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2007, 10:24:24 AM »
I come back from vacation to enter the Twilight Zone.  ;)

Who took Steve and replaced him with this new guy.  ;D

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Trump's Newest New...Next 18 at Bedminster
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 10:38:00 AM »
Adam:
   The land may well indeed be better.
   Don't bother...it'll only get ugly ;)

Paul:
    They say 1st nine by Spring 2008, 2nd by season's end.

Mike:
    Must be the recent frontal lobotomy (performed by my two little kids) , and some fresh time on the property (the minimalization of a certain shady character formerly associated with the place didn't hurt).

   IM me and let me know if you can come up this way and we can go out and walk the new layout.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

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