[David Stamm]

Just a heads up for anyone that hasn't caught the July/August issue of this Mag. It has some pretty good photo's of all the big Welsh courses. The cover has Nefyn & District and there 's a cool photo of Pennard to make Sean happy! Article is by Thomas Dunne.

[George Pazin]

I scanned the piece last night, will read it more in depth tonight.

UK golfers should be outright embarassed at the riches their country has to offer.

[David Stamm]

Thomas Dunne - a valuable contributor here! (I know it was just a typo, David.)

I scanned the piece last night, will read it more in depth tonight.

UK golfers should be outright embarassed at the riches their country has to offer.

Thanks for catching it George. I just corrected it.

I agree with UK golfers assessment. They need to come out to So Cal and see what pub golf is like for the masses here.

[Bill_McBride]

Mr. Arble will be pleased to know the magazine gives both Pennard and Porthcawl 5 stars, its highest rating.  The review says some nice things about Pennard - "..golf in its purest state, a minimalist course on maximal terrain."  "..stellar holes of so many shapes and sizes that it's hard to single out just a couple."

Then the reviewer goes on to imply that the best holes are the late par 5s, and I have a problem with that.  I felt the stretch from 6-11 was really the guts of the course.

Good final quote: "Pennard might not have the manicured perfection of an elite club or the seriousness of purpose of a major-championship venue, but it possesses a radiance all its own."

[David_Tepper]

I have been meaning to do a separate post on this, but I think T&L Golf could very well be the best golf magazine available right now.  Their travel articles are especially good, being thorough and comprehensive.  They go well beyond the "usual suspects" when it comes to visiting/discovering golf courses.

By the way, the Nick Faldo instructional series that T&L Golf has been running for the past 2+ years is excellent, one of the best I have ever come across.  

[Matt_Ward]

One thing the article did not make reference to was the new Celtic Manor layout that will host the 2010 Ryder Cup there.

Be very much interested in knowing the particulars of the "new" course. I played the "old" one and to say it was lacking in imagination would be most kind.

[David_Tepper]

Matt -

I am not sure the "new" Celtic Manor course was finished and open for play when Tom Dunne visited Wales to research the article. I am guessing it was not.

DT

[Tom Dunne]

Thanks for the comments, guys. One thing I can't stress enough is how stories mutate in the process of production, and not just in terms of cutting to fit but in creating a clean-looking layout as well.

I wrote this piece last October. While I visited Celtic Manor and toured the RC course (very much under construction at the time), I obviously couldn't review it in full, so it became a sidebar. A lot of that material hit the cutting room floor as I wound up just trying to explain what the heck they're doing. I pretty much used up all my space is discussing the byzantine changes going on there. To wit:

*Nine holes cherry-picked from the old Wentwood Hills course complemented by nine new ones to constitute the Ryder Cup course.

*The nine holes "rejected" from WH being folded into a "new" course, designed (scare quotes optional) by Monty, the remainder being holes plucked and renovated from the old academy course, Coldra Woods.

*I don't know what is happening to the holes left over from Coldra Woods, but it can't be pretty.


Bill McBride,

No disagreement here--the fact is that I was simply dying to write about "Great Tor", the sixteenth, which is such a ridiculously fun hole, not only off the tee but especially around the green. I know 17 is not loved by all, but I think it's pretty good. While Ran says the golfer needs to "hit a hook just to hold the fairway", there is in fact a little flat shelf up top on the left side that confers a real advantage if the player can find it. In any case, I would have loved to write about other holes at Pennard and just had to make a choice.

 

[Matt_Ward]

Hats off to Sir Terrence for the deep pockets in landing the 2010 Ryder Cup but the "new" Celtic Manor is far from the unique qualities seen with the likes of Royal Porthcawl.

Ah, but golf as we know it is nothing more than a bidder's paradise.

Tom:

Thanks for the info ... I understand what the editing process can be -- especially when on deadline.

[Paul_Turner]

Nice piece by Tom and a jaw-drop photo of Pennard's 7th:  one of the best golf hole pics I've seen.

I was briefly a member at Celtic Manor (5 mins from last job in UK..I need an excuse here).  I can't work out those Ryder Cup iterations involving the Coldra Woods because I thought the high holes on Wentwood Hills were the ones rejected for being too severe?  

A pity about Coldra Woods; in its original form, it was the best thing about The Celtic Manor.  But the original Wentwood Hills course had already screwed the course up, to a large extent, by taking some land and very few players were willing to play an "Executive" course.

[David_Tepper]

By the way, you can access pretty much the entire archive of current and past T&L Golf articles (for free!) at:

www.tlgolf.com

The current issue also has a nice article on golf in North Dakota (Hawktree GC, Bull Pulpit GC, Links of ND & Triple Challenge) and on The Island, outside of Dublin. The prior issue had an article about golf around St. George, Utah and a great article on Royal Ashdown.

[Larry_Keltto]

Count me as another person who thoroughly enjoys T&L Golf.

I'm disappointed to hear about the Coldra Woods course. I thought it was the best thing at Celtic Manor -- a well-designed short course for beginners, young golfers, etc.

Tom Dunne, I was glad to see you gave Dylan Williams a plug in one of the sidebars. I spent some time with him on a tour a few years ago -- super guy.

[Tom Dunne]

Larry,

No doubt. I was lucky enough to play Porthcawl with Dylan and we had a fantastic time of it on a gorgeous day--sunny and very windy, the clouds moving so fast in the sky that it almost seemed like time-lapse photography. Afterward, we had a couple of pints at his local (name escapes me), and his recommendation of the curry at Le Raj--the unprepossessing exterior of which most visitors would probably give a pass--was spot-on. So that squeezed into the story as well.

I'd be remiss not to thank, among many others, Sean Arble and Mark Rowlinson, who were both very helpful in providing travel tips and advice. I wasn't able to link up with Sean, and couldn't take the time out to cross the border and see Kington or Beau Desert (next time!), but Mark came out to Nefyn and Conwy and, most importantly, introduced me to that terrific Fowler sleeper out on Anglesey, Bull Bay--not to be confused with the Bull's Bay of great Flemma renown  . It's rugged and remote, out on this domed hillside overlooking the Irish Sea, yet it possesses the quirk and character of so many of those UK courses on humbler pieces of land. Really fun, perhaps even worthy of the Morrissett treatment...

[Ed Tilley]

I wasn't able to link up with Sean, and couldn't take the time out to cross the border and see Kington

Tom

I reckon you could have slipped Kington in on three counts.  First, it is possible, if the right shot were hit by a flat belly, to drive a ball from the course into Wales.  Second, Kington could claim to be Welsh by virtue of the ancient border between England and Wales which is said to have been the River Severn at the longitude Kington is located.  Finally, despite the very English nature of the town, many of Kington's members are Welsh and you are more likely to hear Welsh spoken at Kington than in the south of Wales.

Hope we can hook up for a game on your next visit.

BTW A visit down to S Wales and no mention of rugger?  The lads are sleeping restless!

Ciao

Sean,

The area west from Pennard to Tenby is a Welsh language stronghold. Around Cardiff there is very little welsh spoken but Llanelli, Camarthen etc have a large proportion of welsh speakers. Everyone speaks welsh in the village my Mum is from - my great grandmother couldn't speak a word of English.

Like you, I am also a great fan of P&K and Tenby. I think Tenby is a great place to stay on a golf trip - beautiful but lively. The Indian restaurant on top of the cliff overlooking the bay was a real highlight. Anyone driving west to Tenby can take in a choice of Porthcawl, P&K, Southerndown, Pennard, and Ashburnham either on the way down or back. These are all within easy reach of the M4.

Sadly, I will be within 2 miles of Pennard next weekend but without clubs - my Mamgu's (grandmother's) 90th birthday party on the Gower. I will be going to North Wales for a week at the end of July and hope to play Nefyn and Harlech - I'll post pictures when I return.

Ed

P.S. I wouldn't call it 'rugger' in S. Wales if I were you - only private school educated Englishmen call it rugger and they're not the most popular people in the rugby playing heartlands of Wales.

[Ed Tilley]

I have found on my golf trips to Wales that Welsh golfers are the friendliest golfers on the planet. A Scottish friend of mine was genuinely moved by the welcome of the members at both Tenby and Pennard. My brother actually hit one member on the 18th green at Tenby (he thought I'd said 'go' when I had actually said 'no' when he asked whether the green was clear). The member couldn't have been more understanding and almost seemed sorry for causing us any trouble.

With regard to Wales politics, there is a deep rooted socialist core to the Welsh people. Whilst Plaid Cymru is a reasonably large party, there is not quite the nationalist clamour for independence in Wales that there is in Scotland. I think this is in part due to the fact that Wales and England have been joined for far longer than England and Scotland, and also due to the fact that a separate Wales would be economically far worse off than as part of Britain. The Welsh are not stupid - as you say, they know who butters their bread. I'm not sure that the Welsh do necessarily keep to themselves politically - Neil Kinnock and Michael Howard were both recent party leaders after all. It's just a small country.

I'm not sure about England subsidising Scotland to the extent you mention. It is undoubtedly true that there is a flow of funds north. The revenues from North Sea Oil partially offset this. What really grates English people is the 'West Lothian question' - Scottish MP's voting on exclusively English issues. I think this is morally corrupt. The introduction of University tuition fees in England & Wales for instance was passed only with the votes of Scottish MP's who happily send their children to Scottish universities at no charge.

Like most English people, I am generally happy with the status quo but, if Scotland wished to go it alone, would not lose any sleep over it. There is no way, however, that a Labour government would allow Scottish independence without introducing proportional representation in England - Labour would never win a general election in England under current rules.

[Rich Goodale]

Very wise post, Ed.

[Ed Tilley]

There is a far greater sense of Englishness now than there was 20 years ago. When I was a child football and rugby crowds would be full of Union Jacks. Now the George cross is everywhere. I think there would be a large proportion of the English population who would be happy to see the Scots go. I have always felt, and will always feel, British due to having both Welsh and English roots. Sadly, I am very much in a minority in modern England.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I couldn't disagree more with your comments regarding Kinnock.  Remember he inherited the Labour Prrty of MIchael Foot, with rampant left wingers and discord on just about everything.  A party that had lost Owen, Williams and co.  By 1992 Kinnock had dragged them to the verge of electability - they were ahead in the polls until that woefully ill-conceived "party" which was seen as, rather presumptiously, celebrating victory before the votes had been cast.

In my book one of Blair's greatest spinning successes is that it was he who beat the militants and turned Labour around.  He inherited a party from Kinnock in which the militants were already beaten (if not silenced) and ready for the changes he would introduce.  Kinnock is portrayed as a loser and an idealist.  It's a false image encouraged by those who have taken Labour and ripped out the ideals it used to stand for, to be replaced with the moderate conservatism we have now.

[Mark Pearce]

Mark

Kinnock may have been ahead in the polls and made the '92 election close, but do you think he was really electable?  Sure, Kinnock carried out reform of the party, but imo so far as the public is concerned, Labour needed a middle of the road man like Blair to find the Labour Party a viable alternative.  

Ciao

Sean,

Isn't there an inconsistency in your argument?  He very nearly DID get elected, quite possibly only failing to do so because he and his advisers celebrated too early.  In '92 the Tories were even more of a shambles than in '97 and Kinnock was electable.  Sadly, what we now have is a choice between two different forms of conservatism.  Blair's legacy to his party is not to have made it electable again (even if Kinnock didn't achieve this, then John Smith certainly did) but to have robbed it of its identity and cloned John Major's Tory party.

Labour now isn't a viable alternative, it's the same thing dressed differently. We'll have to see if Brown, who appears to have more genuinely socialist leanings (except, ironically when it comes to economic policy) changes things much.  I'm not optimistic.

[Ed Tilley]

Re Kinnock, I think he cost them the election in so far as, at the crucial moment, the English middles classes just couldn't bring themselves to vote for him. It should also be remembered that John Smith, as shadow chancellor, proposed a 50% top rate and no upper limit for 10% NI contributions (i.e. an effective 60% top rate). He gets off remarkably scot free for this classic electoral error.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I agree with you on party politics.  I was dismayed at the reaction to Brown's apparent attempt to get Paddy Ashdown involved in his government for just that reason.  However, I do think that effective democracy needs a real choice to be available and I think that the two main parties now have policies so similar that you can't seperate them.  The recent abandonment of grammar schools by the Tories is another example of a "different" policy being abandoned in an attempt to sit in the political centre.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Feel better for that?  I think I agree with every word of that little diatribe, though, as a product of a (state) grammar school myself I hate the fact that my sons, if they stay in the system, will have to attend a school with something like 3000 pupils of mixed ability and with next to no extra curricular activity.  As to university places for all (or 50% of all), don't get me started....

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Good for you, Tom, you make a good case for visiting Wales.  

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks for the comments, guys. One thing I can't stress enough is how stories mutate in the process of production, and not just in terms of cutting to fit but in creating a clean-looking layout as well.

I wrote this piece last October. While I visited Celtic Manor and toured the RC course (very much under construction at the time), I obviously couldn't review it in full, so it became a sidebar. A lot of that material hit the cutting room floor as I wound up just trying to explain what the heck they're doing. I pretty much used up all my space is discussing the byzantine changes going on there. To wit:

*Nine holes cherry-picked from the old Wentwood Hills course complemented by nine new ones to constitute the Ryder Cup course.

*The nine holes "rejected" from WH being folded into a "new" course, designed (scare quotes optional) by Monty, the remainder being holes plucked and renovated from the old academy course, Coldra Woods.

*I don't know what is happening to the holes left over from Coldra Woods, but it can't be pretty.


Bill McBride,

No disagreement here--the fact is that I was simply dying to write about "Great Tor", the sixteenth, which is such a ridiculously fun hole, not only off the tee but especially around the green. I know 17 is not loved by all, but I think it's pretty good. While Ran says the golfer needs to "hit a hook just to hold the fairway", there is in fact a little flat shelf up top on the left side that confers a real advantage if the player can find it. In any case, I would have loved to write about other holes at Pennard and just had to make a choice.

Thanks, Tom, I was just quibbling a bit there.  I also loved #16, was really put off by #17 but maybe not so much next time, but the article was spot on in the important sense, Pennard is just such a unique golf course and unique experience.  And you didn't even mention the electric fences!  It was good to see Pennard ranked alongside mighty Porthcawl (which I also savored on an earlier trip).

Enjoyed T&L Links, I agree it's really good these days.

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