[TaylorA]

My full review of the course can be read here:

http://www.earthgolf.com/golf/2007/07/02/course-review-the-creek-club-reynolds-plantation/

A helpful, computer generated graphic set of the course:

http://www.reynoldscreekclub.com/CC_YB.pdf

(Note that the 5th hole is not a par 5 - it's a par 4)

Photos:

1st tee:


1st fairway:


1st green:


2nd tee:


3rd fairway:


4th tee:


5th tee:


5th fairway:


5th fairway:


5th green:


6th tee:


7th tee:


7th green:


8th fairway:


9th tee:


9th fairway:


9th green:






10th tee:


10th fairway:


11th tee:


11th green:


12th tee:


13th tee:


14th tee:


14th fairway:


14th green:


15th fairway:




16th tee:


17th tee:


18th tee:


18th fairway:


18th greens:

[Brent Hutto]

Well-done review and nice photos. We'll see what Sean Arble has to say about that ninth green. I think it looks like great fun (not that I'd deliberately hit to the wrong side of the hump).

[Kalen Braley]

Well-done review and nice photos. We'll see what Sean Arble has to say about that ninth green. I think it looks like great fun (not that I'd deliberately hit to the wrong side of the hump).

The 9th reminded me a bit of the 5th at Redlands Mesa with the massive amount of elevation change.  Of course #9 at The Creek Club appears to take it to much bigger proportions.

Taylor did you ask why they went with the 3 green configuration on the 18th?  Was it just to be different or are they all smallish greens so they'll mix it up to avoid wear and tear?

[Dan_Callahan]

The course looks like it has the mumps. I am a huge fan of Engh's designs, but I wonder if his mounding isn't a better fit for more mountainous landscapes. Looking at the pictures, everything looks bumpy in the fairways and then smooth in the trees. For those who have been there, is it just the photos, or do you get the same impression in person?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Thanks for the pictures Taylor...I love the ninth green.

How far are the trees from the tee on #5?  From the picture it seems like the right side fairway wouldn't be a feasible play.

[wsmorrison]

Thank you for taking the time to post the photos, Taylor.  I must say that I do not find this course compelling from the photographic evidence.  The greens look overly dramatic (7,9,parts of 11 and 13) with a lot of unpinnable space that makes for some ridiculous putts.  The mounding looks contrived and repetitive.  The bunkering looks like bunkers on other Engh courses (e.g. below 4th green and 9th and 17th fairways), which is not altogether appealing.  I like the first tee shot, but what confronts you with the mounding and bunkers at the green is rather disturbing and an introduction of so much more to come.  There seems to be too much of a similarity between the 6th and 7th greens minus the water on 7.  All in all, it looks like Engh was trying too hard.  

I do not doubt for a minute that a segment of the golfing market finds his courses interesting and fun to play.  There is room for all kinds of designs, but I am not fond of them all.   I applaud his efforts to think and design outside the box.  If everyone liked all courses, they would probably consist of a lot of common denominators.  Hey, if everyone liked everything, it would be pretty boring to discuss.  Engh clearly demonstrates a creative force, but not one that appeals to my eye.  

[TaylorA]

Brent: Thanks for the comments. I think the ninth green is really good.

Kalen: I did not ask - but I'll speculate. The green sizes are small relative to the other greens on the course, but not small relative to "normal" green sizes, plus this is a private course, so I doubt wear and tear was why they did it. I think it's purely to be different and make 18 play like three different holes. Plus, it has marketing benefits as well.

Dan: Engh's mounding is a stark contrast to the subtle, natural slopes of the area. It does look artificial. I, personally, don't find it a problem, but I could easily see how some could.

Kyle: You're welcome. I'm a fan of the ninth as well. The first group of trees on the left are about 220-240 yards off the tee. Believe it or not, all four people in my group played up the right side. In hindsight, it wasn't the play for that particular pin position. If the pin is on the right, the right side is very attractive so you don't have to deal with the huge bunker in front. If it's center or left, the left fairway seems to be the play.

Wayne: Repetitiveness is a fair criticism of the course. However, as I stated in my review, I think a course being different is a good thing in the southeast. We have more than our fair share of bland tracts, so while the Creek Club certainly should take its share of critiques, I think it overall is a good course.

[wsmorrison]

Taylor,

I appreciate your comments.  It seems you took my criticisms well and point out the contrast between Engh's work and other offerings in the area.  I'm glad some architects strive to break out in new directions.  It takes a special kind of creative talent to try things this bold and distinctive.  While it doesn't work for me, I'm happy it does for others.  There is one Engh fan on this site that does not give any credit to other opinions besides his own.  Thank you for understanding and accepting mine as I do yours.  While I may criticize design aspects of the course, the course can remain challenging and fun to play.  They are not mutually exclusive as you point out.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Taylor:  So you can get past the trees on the right - I couldn't tell from the picture.  If that is the case I could see playing a draw around the highest tree as an inviting play.  With that shot it looks like you could take advantage of the slope and get quite a bit of roll.  Thanks again for the pictures.  I will take a look at the full review this evening.

[TaylorA]

Wayne, I certainly think your criticism is fair. I'm not here to carry Engh's or the Creek Club's water - if you had a chance to read my review, you'll see that I pointed out other problems with the course as well. I went in thinking I wasn't going to care for the repetitive bunkering and mounding that I knew was going to be there - but after playing it, I am indifferent to it. It doesn't bother me, but I don't think it's great either.

I think it's an important course for the southeast because I hope it challenges future golf course owners to be different and bold. (I suspect that I'll have similar feelings after playing Long Shadow.) But I don't think the Creek Club is the "template" for style because it is overly artificial and subsequent copies would be just that - copies.

[TaylorA]

Taylor:  So you can get past the trees on the right - I couldn't tell from the picture.  If that is the case I could see playing a draw around the highest tree as an inviting play.  With that shot it looks like you could take advantage of the slope and get quite a bit of roll.  Thanks again for the pictures.  I will take a look at the full review this evening.

Kyle, you hit the nail on the head with regards to the slope on the right. One of the guys in our foursome hit a nice draw off that slope - the ball skidded 40 or 50 yards down the fairway. Compared to my ball, which flew farther, but on a straight line that only got 10 or 20 yards of roll.

[John Kavanaugh]

Bada Engh!  I think I found his fairway template http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_Bing

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re: The 18th hole with 3 greens

The answer as to why is that Engh couldn't decide which one he liked best so he built all 3!!!!

[David Stamm]

After seeing those photo's of the greens on 9 and 13 all I can say is wow.  


I have to agree with Wayne. They certainly look limited with pin placements and I can imagine that some of the putts on them could be a joke. I'm sure they could be fun in a sadistic sort of way.

[Kalen Braley]

Jim does appear to use a few templates. From having played a couple of his courses, I can say they are fun to play, even though it may not be integrated into the land...

[John Shimp]

How do other Engh courses do in terms of hiding cart paths?  These photos show a lot of cart path prominently and most of the paths are straight and therefore really standout.  

[Kalen Braley]

How do other Engh courses do in terms of hiding cart paths?  These photos show a lot of cart path prominently and most of the paths are straight and therefore really standout.  

From my memory, there is usually a cart path to be seen on every hole, because pretty much every hole has an elevated tee box, thus making it more difficult to hide them.

[cary lichtenstein]

I find all of Engh's courses fun to play and this looks like another one

[Jim Franklin]

Wayne, your criticisms were well said and non-confrontational. You hit the nail on the head when you said there is a segment that will like it and some that don't. I will certainly give it a shot as it looks interesting and fun to play like most of Jim's work.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I read that 900 existing members at Reynolds Plantation paid an additional 20K for playing privileges at Creek Club. No resort play is permitted.

[Bill Gayne]

What's jarring to me is the shaping around the bunkers. It doesn't appear to me that balls would land in them without being hit directly in on the fly. You wouldn't get a roll into the bunkers. The greens remind me of some of Mike Strantz work in that it's fun for the occassional round and a little bit of variety but I wouldn't want it every week. I guess it's different at multiple course clubs.

[Andy Troeger]

From my previous experiences with Engh's courses I would look forward to playing this one as well. It reminds me more of Tullymore than any of the Colorado layouts. Looks bold, dramatic, and (to me) fun to play.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Oh look, it's the 2007 Golf Digest Best New Private.......

Taylor,
A nice very to the point review.

I too am in the same category as Wayne and David. This just isn't my type of golf architecture. It's also proof that someone can design something completely ridiculous and people--clueless people (clueless in the theories of nature and golf architecture) will love it.

Jim Engh: Great guy. A really good person. As into golf architecture as any golf architect. I just don't agree with his work.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Oh look, it's the 2007 Golf Digest Best New Private.......

Ahh Tommy, that would be 2008 I believe......

[TaylorA]

Oh look, it's the 2007 Golf Digest Best New Private.......

Taylor,
A nice very to the point review.

I too am in the same category as Wayne and David. This just isn't my type of golf architecture. It's also proof that someone can design something completely ridiculous and people--clueless people (clueless in the theories of nature and golf architecture) will love it.

Jim Engh: Great guy. A really good person. As into golf architecture as any golf architect. I just don't agree with his work.

Thanks Tommy. I don't disagree with your comments at all. I do, however, think that diversity of design styles is critical for the success of Reynolds Plantation. Given how large the property is (in excess of 10,000 acres if memory serves - nearly all of which is developable), they desperately need varied design styles to continue to draw interest in membership.

I have information on what is supposed to be their next course and architect that I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share at this point, but I'll say that it's yet another step in the direction to add diversity to the design styles at Reynolds and I think that's a good thing. Nicklaus, Fazio and Jones (I haven't played the Cupp course) all designed fine tracts there, but they certainly don't separate themselves from each other - they were "safe" designs. It's unfortunate that Cuscowilla is not part of the Reynolds golf course menu. Hopefully they'll continue to add diverse design styles lest they become a Florida style golf community with 180 holes of golf - none of which differs from the rest.

As I said a couple times in the thread, I can appreciate diversity in design styles, even if it doesn't appeal to my "natural is better" philosophy. The course is fun and different - I'm hoping that it draws more architects and different design styles to the southeast. I'm waiting for Reynolds to really go off the wall and allow Mr. Doak the opportunity to fulfill his dream of building his tribute to the original Augusta National. I just fear that the Reynolds folks wouldn't allow him to have the freedom of design at the cost of salable real estate. One can dream, though!

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