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Evan_Smith

Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2007, 05:38:58 PM »
Kalen
   Thanks, I'll send you a few from Strandhill and a couple from Carne and Rosses Point.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2007, 06:32:58 PM »
The following post is on behalf of Evan Smith:

The photo from the 2nd tee shows the giant dune the best. I thought I had a better photo of it from a different angle.  The 2nd is a 170 yard par 3 with the 3rd and 4th holes in behind.  The 5th tee is up on the edge of the dune on the left side. You can make out the 4th green along the left edge of the property with a large bunker fronting the green.  The 5th tee is up the hill to the right.  You can see a bit of cart path coming off the hill.  That's approximately where the tee is.  The 5th hole is a downhill dog-leg left along the base of the dune.

There is a bit of a walk up the hill and away from the dune to get to the 6th tee, which plays towards the dune.  It's a dog-leg right that plays 400 yards from the Whites.  Using the photo from the 2nd tee, the photo from the 6th is aimed towards the right edge of the dune.  The photo from the 13th tee shows the 5th hole bending along the base of the dune.  The green is to the left of the bush at the 3 O'clock position.  It's got a great rumpling fairway!!!
 
The last photo is from the B&B we stayed at.  It shows just how big this dune is that it stands out from I'm guessing 2 or 3 miles straight across the bay.  The duneland to the left of the large dune would be great for golf, but it's protected and they say there is not enough room to build another course.  Too bad.

2nd Tee

6th tee

13th tee

B&B view

Evan_Smith

Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2007, 06:49:43 PM »
Kalen
  Thanks again for posting these for me.  The above photos are from Strandhill Golf Links just outside Sligo Town.  The 5th hole is a 520 yard par 5.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2007, 07:11:10 PM »
More links-land golf shots courtesy of Evan:

Here's the tee shot on the 5th at Rosses Point.  I'm guessing that the vertical drop is in the 50-70 foot range.



Another great drop tee shot and big dunes from the 1st at Portstewart.



Here are a couple from Carne showing the dunes that the back nine plays through.  The front plays along the edge of them and then along some great, less dune-y land.



« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 07:14:15 PM by Kalen Braley »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2007, 03:19:30 PM »
Thanks for the pictures Evan. I figured those arguing Chambers Bay could not be a links because of the elevation changes were standing on sandy ground.  ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2007, 11:31:46 PM »
Salters Point has the best available land for a links course than any place I can think of.  Who's up for a trip up there this summer ?  Wayne almost made it this coming weekend, but our little place was too little for his reunion.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2007, 01:05:37 AM »
I'm sure I'll be making a trip to Cape Cod's armpit this summer and would love to see Salter's Point!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2007, 10:48:24 AM »
I don't know how far above sea level Pennard is (see Sean Arble's profile) but you are never going to be troubled by even the highest tide!  But it is a links course, none the less.

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2007, 05:04:09 PM »
I once read an article that 27 links course will be under water in 50 years. These included RCD, RP, TOC, RSG!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2007, 06:43:54 PM »
Matthew:

If you meant RP as Royal Portrush ... if the Dunluce course is going under water anytime soon, I fear there will be many more than 27 other courses going with her.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2007, 11:27:38 PM »
Matthew:

If you meant RP as Royal Portrush ... if the Dunluce course is going under water anytime soon, I fear there will be many more than 27 other courses going with her.

The Valley course next door is on lower land but is also behind some of the biggest dunes I've ever seen. From memory - I would have thought RP is one of the highest "Links" above sea-level ?

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2007, 08:04:13 PM »
I really think Chambers is technically built in a lateral moraine left from the glacial scouring of Puget Sound.  With all of that Calculus above I thought it appropriate to thro in a little geology.  

Jordan the truest 'linksland' in America may well be in the landlocked midwest just noth of North Platte.  That being the sand hills of Nebraska.  The idea that they were either under water or close to water seems remote today but there was once a great inland sea in the area.

I think Peter H is right.  The only true linksland may exist on on the harddrive of some marketing wiz making every attempt to get fools like us to travel to the next latest and greatest.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 08:04:46 PM by W.H. Cosgrove »

Peter Pallotta

Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2007, 08:22:22 PM »
This doesn't address Jordan's initial question, or have anything specifically to do with Chambers Bay.  But it's just so good I wanted to find a place to share it:

"Nature was gracious and kind when it spread before our forefathers that peculiar undulating ground known as linksland which the receding sea had left, as it were, especially designed as a playground for golf. Even the rabbits which infested its sandy soil and the sheep which roamed its hills and hollows were put there, it would seem, to crop the grass which throve so delicately in this newborn soil. The softness of the sea air, the purity of vegetation, the distant horizon and spring of turf under foot, all went to present a beguiling aspect of Nature in its vastness and its simplicity. And the idea that man projected into these surroundings was as simple. To strike a little ball and consecrate the task by playing it into a little hole was as naïve an enterprise, and yet as ominous, as the patient struggle of vegetation to conquer the white army of the booming deep among the dunes.

So lovable was this adventure that man was not content to pursue it apart in its natural habitation, but must needs transport it to situations unaccommodating to its playing. But to transport it he had to commit sacrilege – he had to analyze it, tear it to pieces the more easily to pack it in his mind. And, in so doing, he did not realize that what he carried away with him was the letter only, and that he left behind something intangible, that property of unsullied nature, innocent beauty undefiled as yet by the hand of man.

It was inevitable that his first review of linksland golf should have engendered a type of architecture which disclosed a conscious adhesion to a formal order of things. It was not to be expected that the mind would immediately seize the sensuous appeal of native golf. Hence, it was not considered in the construction of our first inland courses. The natural architecture of linksland, passed through the sieve of the mind, came out utilitarian in aspect and mathematical in form. The novice at landscape gardening cannot see the planting of trees otherwise than in rows, nor the lawn in front of his house otherwise than in a series of terraces. The conscious mind delights in the fitness of things, in the easily comprehensible, and thus dwells on the surface of phenomena.

Indeed, appearances are never transferable. They are always the produce of certain relations which exist once, and are only appropriate to a certain condition. Hence, the impossibility of transferring the aspect of linksland. This had to be left behind. But that which in linksland appealed unconsciously to the golfer was the absence of any evidence of man’s handiwork. He was in the presence of Nature unstained by artificiality.

The merit of this gradually came to be realized. Its recognition is revealed in the efforts now being made to achieve naturalness in construction of the various features that go to make up a golf course. The straight line has well-nigh disappeared from out bunkers, tees and greens. They are acquired curves. Without doubt this phase is more pleasing to the eye. But the arbitrary manner in which we continue to deal with these components makes them manifest an individuality apart from their surroundings. We have succeeded in prettifying them, but we remain under the delusion that what is pretty, or picturesque, is beautiful."

Peter

Edit: The quote is Max Behr's. I think the last few words are especially good: "we remain under the delusion that what is pretty, or picturesque, is beautiful".  I'm just guessing, but I think Behr is talking about "the beautiful" sort-of like the old Greeks talked about it, i.e. as being in the natural order of things; or maybe how genius physicists talk about some huge complex theory being true because it's beautiful.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 08:31:41 PM by Peter Pallotta »

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2007, 08:32:08 PM »
Mathew.....maybe you just confused feet and meters.
If the drop of sixty feet was instead calculated as meters, then it could stretch out to 200' or so.....
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2007, 11:50:14 PM »
Thanks Peter for posting that masterpiece from Max Behr.  Maybe it would serve as the preamble for every golf architecture book ever to be written, past or future.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2007, 09:40:24 PM »


The supply of linksland is not exhausted; rather, we suffer a poverty of imagination.

That plus enviro restrictions and economics of buying coastal properties.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 09:41:25 PM by Mark Bourgeois »

Peter Pallotta

Re:Land for Links Courses
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2007, 09:55:55 PM »
Thanks Peter for posting that masterpiece from Max Behr.  Maybe it would serve as the preamble for every golf architecture book ever to be written, past or future.  

RJ
my thoughts exactly. It really is a wonderful little history lesson, isn't it? And the best kind too, the kind that draws meaning out of the seemingly random events, or at least GIVES them a meaning, and tries to explain why things are as they are. It's like a cup of cool water, reading him.

Peter

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