[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Winged Foot - 2 Great Courses...

[Glenn Spencer]

I always want to answer this question with Merion or Pine Valley or Quaker or Winged Foot, but the stats do not seem to bear it out. There are not many major champions from the Northeast. I think you have to look to the South or West and just find the best courses with the best programs for juniors and there is your answer. Also, a course that has a membership or players that want to be around a young guy that can play and not be jealous of him.

[Rick Shefchik]

We've been answering two questions here, one of which Bill didn't ask.

There is no doubt that, in the real world, the environment surrounding a golf course -- quality of competition, level of junior support, access for young players, teaching staff, etc. -- has more impact on producing successful players than architecture does. But as I read Bill's question, he wanted our opinion on which course would produce the best player if all those other factors were equal.

In that regard, I think it's more important to look at who has won on a given course than it is to look at which players grew up there.

[Jim Nugent]

I'd reiterate what Tom Dunne said in post #2.

This is one of the two primary reasons the course was created and designed as it was. It was supposed to be a training ground for Philadelphia's best players to get better and be more successful on the National tournament scene.

Matter of fact, back in the teens one of the members offered to give the club $5,000 if one of PV's members could make the US Amateur that year.

By the way, one of Pine Valley's most significant, participatory and opinionted members of the Committee to finish off the golf course was Oakmont's W.C. Fownes---arguably the other American course that was designed to be a super, ultra test of the elite player.

Have things turned out that way?  i.e. have PV and/or Oakmont produced lots of top players at the national level?

I suspect that climate might have something to do with all this.  A player who can play year-round probably has a better chance of becoming great than one who can only play 4 or 6 months a year.  This might be one reason not so many top golfers come from the northeast.  

[Mark Bourgeois]

Whatever course it is, it should have:
1. Pinehurst putting green and chipping green off to right of 1 tee on #2, all of which is Stimped to a ridiculous figure
2. No range

Mark

[Patrick Glynn]

Pasatiempo. It is reasonably open but you must learn to place your drives in the right spots otherwise you are faced with very difficult 2nd shots. The greens are fast, pure & if you can get up n down on them - you can save par on any course. Good practice facilities too.

Links courses are generally not that conducive to developing "good" players. I remember my first time playing an inland course - the sight of all those trees scared me half to death. Fast & firm is the exception, not the norm. Take any player out of his conform zone & watch him struggle.

[Tim Gavrich]

Whatever course it is, it should have:
1. Pinehurst putting green and chipping green off to right of 1 tee on #2, all of which is Stimped to a ridiculous figure
2. No range

Mark

Amen to that.  I've had the pleasure of fiddling around at that practice green, and it is quite the adventure.  I don't know if I agree with #2, but that's neither here nor there.

I think that one quality that a "course on which to learn to be great" should possess is a hole or two that is a card-wrecker.  A hole or two that can derail a great round if you take it lightly.  I like playing Pawleys Plantation during the summer because it is brutally difficult and possesses a couple holes (namely, boh back-nine par threes) that really test your intestinal fortitude.  I think that the ideal course for "learning to be great" needs to be among the toughest out there.  I'll wager that Oakmont fits into this category very well.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Just my opinion, but the environment is more important than the course...

Considering the question was "which course...?" I would suggest a course that could be scored well on with good play. Ultra difficulty will create a certain type of player, but difficult with some soft spots will enable the young player to learn how to play the tough holes as well as make a bunch of birdies...which is the most important thing in winning golf tournaments...

Dr. Childs, HVCC has had a very long history of producing good players, I would credit that more to the environment than the course. They have always been very supportive of young players...

Jim-

Do you think, if HVCC was not as good of a golf course as it is, meaning what it requires from the golfer, the club would still be able to produce that number of really good golfers, though?  
It just requires so many shots and so much skill to play well, do you agree?  

[Phil_the_Author]

Curious...

Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Ben Crenshaw, Lee Trevino, and yet not a single course from texas has been mentioned...

Curious...

[Tommy Williamsen]

The course with the best junior program.  Unfortunately, I don't see as many as I used to.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Curious...

Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Ben Crenshaw, Lee Trevino, and yet not a single course from texas has been mentioned...

Curious...

Champions got some air play above.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good point re Texas, prompting an addendum:
3. Summer caddie program, populated by kids who otherwise would not be playing golf.

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