[Tom_Doak]

I feel for the signature architects who are required to produce quotes for marketing guys about their newest course, I really do.  The marketers never have time to think up a pertinent question, they just ask you for "a quote".

But last week in the United Airlines magazine I came across this doozy in an advertorial for Greg Norman's latest Colorado project, Cornerstone, and this is what Greg had to say about it:

"Michelangelo once said, 'I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.'  It's great that we could just 'release' the natural layout here for a championship course."

Tom Fazio's latest is that his newest course is "As good as it gets."  You can take that a number of ways, but you don't have to read nearly as much ego into it as Greg's.

[John Kavanaugh]

I once watched Greg Norman walk away from me and have to admit that the thought "chiseled" did come to mind.

[Jim Franklin]

That's funny. I wonder how much time Greg really spent on site? I would think it better be a lot when he makes a statement like that because Michelangelo was there the ENTIRE time he created a work of art.

[John Kavanaugh]

That's funny. I wonder how much time Greg really spent on site? I would think it better be a lot when he makes a statement like that because Michelangelo was there the ENTIRE time he created a work of art.

Jim,

That is not entirely correct as I believe that Michelangelo and other old masters would have other artists do a great deal of their work.  

[KBanks]

Although he didn't come up with the comparison for himself, since he designed the Sistine Chapel of golf, hasn't the Michelangelo of golf architects already been determined?

This is a potentially interesting thread. Can we liken golf architects to other artists? I recall Herbert Warren Wind referring to George Crump as the Gauguin of golf.

Ken

[Jim Nugent]

That's funny. I wonder how much time Greg really spent on site? I would think it better be a lot when he makes a statement like that because Michelangelo was there the ENTIRE time he created a work of art.

Jim,

That is not entirely correct as I believe that Michelangelo and other old masters would have other artists do a great deal of their work.  

No kidding?  I didn't know that.  Would love to hear more.  

[Jerry Kluger]

Tom: I don't see this as limited to golf course architects. Believe me when I tell you that lawyers are worse - there are so many "trial lawyers" out there who have no clue of what to do when a case actually goes to trial.  How about doctors - every doctor I've ever been referred to is the best in his field.  This is all self promotion and big egos - at least in golf when you are selecting an architect you can say: Show me what you've done and let me judge it.

[Mike Hendren]

A couple of my favorites:

"I feel like I'm hiring C. B. Macdonald myself." - Mike Keiser

"Together with its big sister, Bandon Dunes, this must be the finest 36 holes of golf at any resort in the world."  - Tom Doak.

Mike

[John Nixon]

Michelangelo, and his peers, I seem to recall reading sometime in my life, would head a studio which usually involved underlings doing some parts of the work on certain projects. I think in Michelangelo's case you'd have to go on a piece-by-piece determination of whether or not anyone helped him on a given sculpture.

[Jeff_Mingay]

A couple guys on our crew came across a good one a few weeks ago here, in Canada. In a golf magazine ad, the architect is quoted describing the new course in question as "kinda like Pebble Beach".

"Kinda like..."?!

[John Nixon]

Can we liken golf architects to other artists?

Who gets to be the Thomas Kinkade figure?

[John Kavanaugh]

I like this quote by a critic when describing a hole he recently played:

"Although I made 2, I'm not so sure about #12 for the average-length hitter, or even an above-average length hitter.  It might be too much for them to handle."  

[TEPaul]

TomD:

Have you ever noticed that generally speaking golfers are remarkably conservative people both politically and otherwise?

As such, it seems like that age old adage "Caveat Emptor" both does apply and always will apply.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom would know better than I how much is ego and how much of that was promotion. I have always seen Norman as a promotion guy of the first order. I do think the comment is a bit over the top in either case. I have only been around Norman is a social sense once and that was for a few days at Scibo Castle. I was there to hang in the rare air and he was there to prepare for the Open. He was relaxed, nice, chatty and did not show a world class ego by any stretch of the imagination.

[Peter Pallotta]

I'd like to assume that Norman didn't think up or say the line himself, that it was one of the marketing guys who thought it up and then put it in quotes. (He then took the rest of the day off.)

But if Greg DID compare himself to Michelangelo, I wonder who Nick Faldo would be. I mean, who was 11 shots better than Michelangelo back then?

Naw, actually, that isn't fair. Why not have a little more Barnum and Bailey in golf course architecture? (It goes particularly well with an Australian red.)

Peter  

[Geoffrey Childs]

I do believe that Greg or whomever came up with that quote were doing their job very well.  

Marketing their work I assume is a part of the job agreed to when the developer signed on an architect for a golf course.  This quote is a nice new take and certainly caught some attention. What would you have him say to the press?  The truth?  

[Kirk Gill]

Perhaps, just perhaps, Norman is not comparing himself to Michelangelo as much as he is referencing M's famous assertion that the sculptures he created already existed in the marble, and his work merely removed the excess stone and freed the sculpted figure (ironically, a humble comment as it seems to diminish the importance of the artist). Perhaps GN is merely saying that the course was already there to be found, and there was little for himself or any other architect to do for the course to spring forth.

Of course, that would be giving Greg Norman the benefit of the doubt.

[JESII]

Kirk,


That's how I read the comment.

Is there some reason not to give GN the benefit of the doubt?

[TaylorA]

Kirk, I took it the same way you did. A twist on the old "there were 180 great golf holes out there and we just had to find the best 18."

[Peter Pallotta]

Kirk, JES, Taylor

I think you're all right in that reading, and I'm really just guessing here, but given GN's busy schedule and varied interests, is there any reason to believe that he spent enough time on the site to discover the 18 best holes that were already there "in the marble"?

Peter  

[TaylorA]

Kirk, JES, Taylor

I think you're all right in that reading, and I'm really just guessing here, but given GN's busy schedule and varied interests, is there any reason to believe that he spent enough time on the site to discover the 18 best holes that were already there "in the marble"?

Peter  

Peter, in the quote, Norman uses "we" when referencing the golf course, not I.

[Dan_Callahan]

I read a review of a new Engh design that compared the course (favorably) to a Salvador Dali painting.

[Steve Lang]

 

Is this it?

[Steve Lang]

 

Tom Doak,  No I don't think GN compared himself to the big M.. very common  expression with scupturers

[Matt_Cohn]

Tom,

Pelican Hill uses that same "angel in the marble" quote on their new website. Hmm...

Is Norman comparing himself to Michelangelo? Or just aspiring to that level?

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