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Tom MacWood (Guest)

Tom Simpson
« on: September 05, 2002, 08:05:24 PM »
Tom Simpson appears to be a very interesting cat, with his chauffered Rolls Royce, beret and cape. Perhaps an even more creative writer and thinker than Behr, his colaboration with Newton Wethered may be the very best book on the subject. A wonderful artist - are Coore and Crenshaw emulating his bunkering style. Plus an impressive 25 year resume of designs that includes Cruden Bay, New Zealand, Morfontaine and Ballybunion. Why isn't he better known?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

johnk

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2002, 10:02:58 PM »
"Why isn't Tom Simpson better known?"

Why are the "best course" rankings dominated by US Courses?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2002, 03:24:20 AM »
John
I agree with you, but on the other hand, on this site the foreign courses seemed to be well represented, and guys like Thompson and Colt are discussed often. But I get the impression he isn't that well known even in his own country. I'm not sure if there was a golf architect who wrote more on the subject than Simpson and wrote very well - reason alone for him to be discussed more on a site devoted to golf design.

I know I'd like to know more about him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2002, 06:32:36 AM »
In the 1980's, after several years of searching, I found a 1924 plan of Crystal Springs Golf Links, Burlingame, CA. in the attic of the S.F. Water Department. The course was designed by W. Herbert Fowler, "Landscape Architect." Tom Simpson is credited as construction superintendent. I imagine Simpson was also involved in the original Lake Merced CC by Fowler.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2002, 07:03:26 AM »
Tom -

It's not just Simpson that gets little attention. Lots of his UK contemporaries don't get much either. And they probably have more top 100 courses than any of the US architects that get so much attention here.

I'm thinking of Simpson, Braid, MacKenzie Ross (sp?), Fowler and others whose names I forget. (A case in point that I'm a guilt as anyone at not knowing much about them.)

A couple of weeks ago I was amazed to find a wall between the bar and the men's locker at Royal Aberdeen covered with Braid's notes, sketches and finished drawings of  revisions to the course in the 1920's. His notes are very detailed and give one of those rare glimpses of an architect thinking out loud about specific architectural problems on a specific hole. Great stuff.

I guess I understand why they've received relatively little attantion in the US. The bulk of their work was done in the UK. But why hasn't more interest been shown in these architects in the UK? Or have I just not seen the books?

Bob

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2002, 07:29:35 AM »
Tom MacWood:

FYI, people in Ballybunion really don't use the Tom Simpson name very much. To the contrary, most reports say that he really didn't have much to do with the course.  Adding some bunkers on what now plays as #1 is really the exception.  Most of the course was there before Simpson showed up.

Actually, another architect named Tom gets more credit, that being Tom Watson.  Watson was welcomed back in the 1980's by the late Sean Walsh and is generally credited with putting Ballybunion on the map. Back in those days unemployment in the community ran very high (estimated 30-40 percent) and only hard core architecture junkies would visit.

I'm not a great fan of all the busloads that now crowd the place, but there is no question that the economic fortunes of Ballybunion residents have improved dramatically.  Obviously, the so called "Celtic tiger" had much to do with this, but Watson really came first and he is loved for that.

Keep in mind that Watson also served as consulting architect a few years back when changes were made to a few holes on the Old Course. Those changes were so subtle that very few people even recognize them. But, I know from close personal friends that Watson and the local members were definitely on the same page and worked closely together.

The Watson association with Ballybunion was strengthened when he was elected Captain in 2000 and will likely grow even stronger when some work is done to the Cashen course in another year or two.

Bottom line: Simpson will never get much credit for Ballybunion and, in fairness, probably not that much is due anyway.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

CharlestonBuckeye

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2002, 07:39:59 AM »
From my recent trip to Morfontaine.
 
It seemed only fitting that my scheduled game at Morfontaine was met with rainy conditions and stiff winds.  After all, that weather seems to prevail whenever I catch the European Tour on the tube.  Morfontaine lies just outside the village bearing the same name, which puts it 20 km due north of Charles de Gaulle airport and 40 km north of central Paris.  It might as well be 200 km, as the setting is very rural and only a smallish, non-presumptuous clubhouse was the only structure visible once inside the gates.
 
The Duke of Gramont hired Scottish architect Tom Simpson in 1907 to design a nine hole course on this site that served as the Duke's polo club.  The original 9 holes remain today, with the first 5 remaining untouched.  Due to the shortness of this 9 (2700 yds. from the back), its primary play today is the elderly or a "fun" skins game between the better players.
 
Golf became the game of choice of The Duke and his entourage, thus Simpson was hired again and constructed an entirely new 18 which was completed in 1927.  The rolling terrain ( similar to Inverness, Congressional or Forest Creek) lends itself to a variety of gently sloping holes, either uphill, downhill or side hill.  The property also benefits from an underground stream (at least that was my interpretation from my French playing companion) that has created vegetation typically found in southern France.  Short rooted pine trees and natural wild grasses (i.e. Prairie Dunes) are common in what amounts to a sandy soil base.  The wild natural grasses have been allowed to grow long around bunkers and strategically angle in on some fairways and come entirely across several fairways in 10 yard wide strips, thus creating shot making decisions regarding lay-up or carry.  The course also encompasses large boulders that dot the land.  These were mostly used as "cosmetic" and lie off of tee boxes or fairways, but number 14, a 380 yard par 4, has one large rock in the center of the fairway.
 
The greens are extremely large (12,000 sq ft. avg. / my guess), undulating, false fronts on approximately half and were extremely quick, despite playing in a steady sprinkle.  The par 70 course plays just shy of 6400 yards from the back tee and carries a rating of 70.9 and a slope of 131.  The club currently has 400 "shareholders" of which 80 were defined as frequent golfers.  Henri de Lamaze holds the course record, a non-tournament round of 62.  He became the first frenchman to be invited to The Masters in 1959.
 
1.  Ease & intimacy of routing:  9 - Though the holes are compressed as courses of that era were, your attention never wanders from the hole you are playing.  
 
2.  Quality of feature shaping: 9 - Then entire course appears as if it were dropped from the heavens upon the land which it sits.  Nothing artificial here.
 
3.  Natural setting and overall land plan:  10 - I believe the first 10 I've ever recorded.  The terrain, vegetation, boulders and seclusion are unbeatable.
 
4.  Interest of greens and surrounding contours:  9 -  The true defense of the course due to its length.  Chipping and putting demanded touch, feel and imagination.
 
5.  Variety and memorability of par 3s: 7 -  Two on the front and three on the back.  The front provides a stern test at 195 and 179 yards.  The three on the back are all between 150 and 162 and similar.  The lone exception is number 13 which has a lone pine directly in the line from tee to green, which presents a visible challenge only.
 
6.  Par 4s:  9 - Everything from 330 to 450 and a good mix of short, medium and long.  Number 7 and 8 are hard to beat as back to back par fours anywhere in the world.  Both dogleg right to left, slightly uphill and right to left slant off the tee.  The approach then swings downhill to picturesque greens.
 
7.  Par 5s:  5 - Only three on the course and all between 480 and 505.  No real trouble beyond the greens to make up for the shortness of any of these.  Really, the only bland attribute of the course.
 
8.  Conditioning - 10 - I caught it a day after a large European ladies amateur event.  One of those courses that looks "rugged", yet is manicured to the hilt.
 
9.  Landscape / tree mgt.:  9 - Nothing fancy or cosmetic here.  The wild grasses have been incorporated perfectly.
 
10.  Walk in the park: 10 - God, I want to go back and play in good weather.  
 
Overall - 9

Quote
Tom Simpson appears to be a very interesting cat, with his chauffered Rolls Royce, beret and cape. Perhaps an even more creative writer and thinker than Behr, his colaboration with Newton Wethered may be the very best book on the subject. A wonderful artist - are Coore and Crenshaw emulating his bunkering style. Plus an impressive 25 year resume of designs that includes Cruden Bay, New Zealand, Morfontaine and Ballybunion. Why isn't he better known?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2002, 08:09:36 AM »
Charlestonbuckeye:

That's quite a write up and analysis. The course sounds to be really something in many many ways.

Obviously you've seen other very good courses and architecture--where would you include Morfontaine amongst other great architecture?

I'd be just as much interested in what you say about any very interesting differences as similarities!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Geoff_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2002, 08:16:43 AM »
Tom,
Keep in mind Simpson and Wethered's book and the subsequent reprint has been extremely hard to find until this summer when the $25 Flagstick (or is it Classics of Golf?) reprint became available. Plus, let's be honest, like Behr, it takes some patience and effort to really enjoy their writing style, though Simpson/Wethered were definitely quite funny and some of that humor gets lost. Lets face it, humor has all but disappeared in golf.

One of my most prized collectibles is a signed copy of the 1952 reprint. Inside, it is signed by Simpson (he initialed it for his signature!?) and enclosed a photo of himself with George Delaforce, the person who received the book. He inscribed some pretty funny and bizarre things on the photo. The handwriting definitely confirms Simpson did the drawings in book.

And yes, Coore and Crenshaw's bunkering style has to be influenced by Simpson's drawings, because I know how much they love the book. One year the Grant Books reprint was their Christmas gift to "the boys."
Geoff
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2002, 09:19:17 AM »
Tim
I'd thought the same thing in regards to his contributions at Ballybunion, until I read a recent book that details the course's history. The book, the title escapes me, suggests Simpson's contribution has been underestimated.

Geoff
I agree about Simpson's writing style, although I wouldn't put him in the Behr head-scratching league - like Behr he many times has a totally unique perspective. And I think the writing style of 'The Architectural Side' is due mostly to Wethered in their colaboration. He was another interesting guy - an art and literary historian, who fathered two champion golfers.

It is amazing how similar some of C&C bunkers are to Simpson's sketches.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2002, 10:54:22 AM »
Tom MacWood:

This is my understanding of the design of Ballybunion and the involvement of Tom Simpson:

The club was founded in the 1890's. In the early years the layout changed a couple times and even went back and forth from 9 to 18 holes. Record keeping is insufficient to clearly identify who was responsible for the final routing plan.

Simpson was invited by the club in 1936 to consult and recommend changes for the 1937 Irish Championship. Simpson made no changes to the routing but made changes to about 3-4 holes.

Simpson also presented the club with a report on a more extensive set of changes he thought would improve the course. He did so with the understanding that the club did not have the financial capability to follow through.

At some point Simpson's report was lost. But, in 1960, the club undertook alterations to a couple holes apparently along the lines of Simpson's recommendations.

In the mid 1990's the club began to consider the possiblility of hosting the 2000 Irish Open and asked Tom Watson to consult. The most significant changes were adding some bunkers to #4 and #5 and modifications to the ground above the "sahara bunker" on #18.

Ballybunion's Old Course has slowly evolved since it was opened in the 1890's. No single architect or person deserves credit. Several architects apparently had input; "Committee" members also played a role over the years. However, after the person who did the final routing plan (whoever that was), Simpson may have had the most influence.

Let me know if you recall the source you came across.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2002, 11:12:07 AM »
I don't have the book in front of me, but that seems about right. And if I recall correctly, the story involved Braid/Stutt at one early point, host of big names bidding on the project when Simpson got the call, his associate - Molly Gourlay - the female golfer, and extensive plan that was implemented over time. The author's conclusion was that Simpson deserved more credit than what he had been given.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2002, 11:41:28 AM »
Tom,

Simpson's full report would be a treasure. Unfortunately, far too often documentation is either lost or never prepared in the first place.

Recently, I was brought to tears with first hand accounts of Robert Trent Jones work on the Cashen course. In this case, the key players are still alive, but they really never documented their experience except some paintings by my friend Kevin Frost which today hang somewhere in the clubhouse at Robert Trent Jones Golf Club.

 

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2002, 12:16:14 PM »
Tim -

Don't tease us. What caused a grown man to cry?

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2002, 01:06:22 PM »
Bob:

Sorry!

There were several things but the two that stood out included one story I wrote about recently. It involved opening day, specifically the emotional scene with Mr Jones and his two estranged sons, Rees and Robert, Jr. Mr. Jones wanted nothing more than for his two sons to attend and club officials made it happen. Really kind of sad.

On the funny side was the account of Jones' visit tour of the property on horseback and his subsequent call to the King of Morroco explaining that he would be delayed because he found the biggest sandhills he had ever seen.

Also, working with Jones apparently meant accepting him frequently falling asleep in the middle of conversations only to wake up refreshed as if nothing had happened.

The Cashen course is much maligned. I must confess I sometimes like it that way because it is my favorite place in the world and I enjoy going out without being bothered by the crowds you find right next door on the Old Course. Also, one of my very best friends worked very closely with Jones both sketching holes and hitting golf balls to select green sites. So, he is able to relate what was going through Jones' mind as the course was laid out, including things that were considered but never implemented. Other than with my home course (Sand Ridge), there is no other place where I'm privy to so much first hand, "inside" information.

Along those lines, I'm really looking forward to the publication of Tom Doak's Pacific Dunes book. I hope we don't have to wait too long.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2002, 02:18:12 PM »
Tim -

Just out of curiosity, why was RTJ chosen to do the Cashen at Bally?

I've never played the course and don't have any opinions about it. But I can't think of an architect less likely to do a course that would "fit" with the Old Course. And why a US designer at all?

Bob  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2002, 05:03:46 PM »
How on earth was the topic ever intiated? ? ? ?:)

Mike Cirba, (Hopefully you are reading this) Once again, if you don't buy this book, you will be missing one of the greatest books on the ART!

I can only simply state that this book is not only GREAT, it maybe one more fortelling then Nostradomas' quatraines. Read Chapter 2-"Attack and Defence" for futher proof of this.

It will be interesting to see if many frequent posters on GCA  who know so much about golf architecture, shot values, risk and reward, framing, water presentations, "playability" and product, actually read this book if they already haven't. This dose not mean buying the book and then putting it on a book shelf. It actually means picking it up and READING it.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2002, 05:30:27 PM »
BCrosby:

RTJ had the advantage of being a well known American architect and that meant a lot to Ballybunion Golf Club in the late 1970's. At the time Ballybunion really wasn't on the map. A limited number of golf architecture fanatics made the journey, but that's about it.

While embarking on the mission of building another course, the club wanted to attract more overseas visitors, especially Americans. RTJ was well known, respected and willing to work outside of the US. In terms of qualifications, both as an architect and as a marketer he was hard to beat.

With improvements in transportation today we don't think going to Ballybunion is much out of the way. But, when RTJ went to have a look at the Cashen property that really wasn't true. People didn't just drop in. You had to make an effort to visit. RTJ did and that was very much appreciated by the decision makers at the time.

Then, too, it seems clear that a "love affair" quickly developed between RTJ and the members involved in building the course. RTJ loved the property and made his feelings known. The Ballybunion folks also really enjoyed working with him. Listening to stories it seems obvious that RTJ secured the job almost immediately during his initial visit.

The affection between those involved grew strong enough that RTJ felt comfortable opening up about his feelings toward his estranged sons. One gets the feeling that if it were not for Ballybunion, they might never have gotten together, but perhaps I shouldn't say that having never heard anything directly from members of the Jones family. And who knows how a few pints may change or embellish the story.

I'm sure economics also played a role in RTJ securing the job. Ballybunion Golf Club, though financially strong today, didn't have much money in those days. It's clear that RTJ recognized that fact very quickly and commited to a very modest fee. The exact amount escapes me, but not much money changed hands. RTJ settled, I think, for about ten lifetime memberships.

RTJ was apparently disappointed that the course suffered early on (the grow in phase didn't go very well) and acquired a bad reputation. To this day that reputation hasn't changed. The course is very difficult to walk and is probably too difficult for the average golfer to play, especially in a strong wind.  But, the land is so spectacular that I long to be there almost every day.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2002, 05:56:52 PM »
Tim

I think Peter Dobereiner might have had some influence in bringing Trent to Ballybunion?  

Also, I think we have to remember, that there really wouldn't have been many "eligible" architects, from Ireland or Britain.  The golf construction business in Ireland and Britain was stagnant and therefore I think it was assumed that any big important project should go to an American architect. These guys were used to the big projects!  And it would continue in the next decade, with all the big projects going to American architects: East Sussex National, The Wisely, The London Club, Loch Lomond, Chart Hills, Adare Manor, Celtic Manor...

I wonder what Eddie Hackett would have built at Ballybunion?
I bet it would have been pretty severe!

Tom Simpson:

I want to check out Fontainbleau, Chiberta and Liphook.  Chiberta has some amazing drawings in his book!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2002, 06:26:34 PM »
Paul Turner:

Not many people think the Cashen needs more in the way of severity, so who knows what else Eddie Hackett might have done.

On my next visit, perhaps I should touch base with friends on whether RTJ thought the average player would be able to handle the course.

Tommy Naccarato:

Getting back to Simpson, you are absolutely right about "Attack and Defense". It is a classic and it is one reason I've argued that length should really be thought of in terms of "relative length" rather than "absolute length".

Simpson understoood the difference. Maybe people in the golf industry today do not.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2002, 06:36:17 PM »
Tim

Hackett would have had to build a severe course simply because he moved very little earth and the dunes are so large.  

The dunes on the New are probably too big for good golf, even if they do offer some of the most spectacular shots in golf.  And so I'd be intrigued to see whether other architects could have come up with a more popular course than the Trent's? i.e. still spectacular but less severe.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2002, 08:29:04 PM »
Paul Turner:

It would be an interesting exercise to see what someone else would have come up with on that property, especially given license to move some more dirt (actually sand).

Actually, I believe a limited number of changes would favorably alter perceptions of the course. First, I think it is quite likely that efforts will be made to make walking easier. An obvious example is the location of the #2 tee. It will probably be moved to the left of the current location so that the walk from #1 green will be less of a workout (by eliminating the hill climbing).

Beyond that some effort needs to be made to widen some landing areas, e.g., #15 and #17. Also, it would help to restore the original tee on #7. Doing so would serve to make tee shot landing area more reasonable. As it currently plays, I really don't like the shot (it has a serious lost ball potential on the right about 240 yards out).


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2002, 06:28:02 AM »
Pete
That is fascinating what you uncovered. I had always thought Fowler came to the US alone.

I ran into an old article where Simpson and Behr 'dueled' with one another on a ficticious parcel. I preferred Simpson's hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2002, 10:13:09 AM »
Tim -

Interesting. Boy, how things have changed with UK golf since the late 1970's.

Given the UK's native architectural talent today, I'm always been surprised that Weisskoff, Norman and other non-Brits get so many high profile commissions these days. As you say, it's probably the marketing departments driving a lot of those decisions.

Tom -

I would love to see that Behr/Simpson article. Do you have a cite or could you reproduce it here? Sounds fascinating.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Tom Simpson
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2002, 11:04:42 AM »
BCrosby:

I would never want to select an architect purely for marketing reasons, but if I think of a place like Doonbeg before work started, it is hard to dismiss this consideration altogether.

It's true Doonbeg's location may be advantaged. I'm speaking of its proximity to Shannon Airport, Lahinch and the ferry to Ballybunion. But, that place looked awfully barren when the project started. It didn't look look a place you would care to go, even if there were some big sandhills.

So, the Norman name and a few marketing photos go a long way.

How many projects can really avoid a marketing effort? How many projects can you really simply select the very best architect? How many Pacific Dunes will there be?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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