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Paul Richards

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Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« on: May 04, 2007, 07:20:01 AM »
The following is a new and very positive article on Erin Hills from today's Chicago Tribune.

A couple interesting points here - this was the first time I'd seen a response from Ron Whitten regarding Brad Klein's article on Erin and also that the USGA is not thrilled with what is available in Chicago for a US Open.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0705040280may04,1,3181073.story

----------------

An infant classic


Unveiled late last year, Wisconsin's Erin Hills already generating buzz as a future U.S. Open site


By Ed Sherman
Tribune golf reporter
Published May 4, 2007

ERIN, Wis. -- Bob Lang once fielded two small but poignant questions that sum up the essence of Erin Hills.

A man asked Lang why the locker room didn't have any combs floating around in that blue water like you see at country clubs. Someone else inquired why the sign at the entrance was so small, making it easy to miss from the road.



"You will never see combs in the bathroom, and you won't see a bigger sign," Lang said emphatically.

What you might see is a course that could be a future site of a U.S. Open.

Erin Hills, 35 miles northwest of Milwaukee, is a no-frills homage to the great Scottish and Irish courses. It takes the less-is-more approach, with the entrance sign setting the tone for the understated feel.

"Minimalist" is the term Lang uses to describe a course he developed in which little or no dirt was moved on 14 of the 18 links-style holes.

Yet the outcome is hardly minimal. Erin Hills, in the Kettle Moraine region, weaves through natural wetlands, fescue grasses and pine trees, gliding along hills and swales formed by a glacier millions of years ago. Much like Whistling Straits, which magnificently hugs the shoreline of Lake Michigan down the road, Erin Hills is another of those courses that appear impossible on the mostly dull flatlands of the Midwest.

Unveiled as a public course late last year, Erin Hills continues to be the most talked-about new facility in golf. Golf Magazine recently voted it its best new course for 2007. The course already has taken tee times from golfers in 16 states willing to pay the $150 greens fee. Lang is counting on plenty of Illinois golfers making the trek because Erin Hills is less than two hours from downtown Chicago.

The hype already was considerable before the first flag was put into the ground. Representatives from the U.S. Golf Association were so excited about Erin Hills' raw potential that they awarded it the 2008 U.S. Women's Amateur Public Links tournament. The timing of the event is telling: It is in June, not so coincidentally the same month as the U.S. Open.

If Erin Hills passes the test, a U.S. Amateur likely will follow, serving as a precursor to an Open late in the next decade. The USGA desperately wants to bring its big tournament back into the area. However, with Whistling Straits committed to PGA Championships and a Ryder Cup and with the association not thrilled by what is available in Chicago, Erin Hills could be a viable alternative.

USGA Executive Director David Fay said the land "blew me away" during a visit before construction began.

While saying Erin Hills had many hurdles to overcome to become an Open course, Mike Davis, the USGA's senior director of rules and competition, can't stop gushing over its potential.

"When I first saw it [before construction], I was astounded," Davis said. "What an incredible piece of property. Logistically, it might be the best site we've ever seen for an Open. Obviously, we have to give it more time, but this could be a home run site."

All the attention is overwhelming for Lang, a highly unlikely candidate to oversee an Open-caliber course. He learned the game while working as a caddie in his hometown of Danville. However, he's hardly an avid golfer, shooting in the low 50s for nine holes.

While making his money in the greeting card and calendar business, Lang initially sought to build a cozy nine-hole course.

"I just loved the atmosphere of being around a course," Lang said. "It gave me a good feeling."

Lang didn't realize what he had when he purchased this 652-acre parcel. But others were staggered when they saw the raw land, convincing Lang he had a gem just waiting to be sculpted.

"It is one of the great pieces of property I've ever seen," said Ron Whitten, the architecture critic for Golf Digest.

Whitten was so excited about the possibilities that he changed roles and joined designers Michael Hurdzan and Dana Fry on the project. Much like the ancient architects who built courses without the benefit of earth movers, the trio laid out holes based on what the land gave them.

A case in point is the incredibly tiny 1,800-square-foot green on the par-4 second hole. The land dictated the size and location, Whitten said.

 "We tried to disturb the land as little as possible," Whitten said. "Some people believe nature is the best architect. This is a very natural course. It also is a very quirky course because of that."

The par-3 seventh hole requires a blind shot to the green, inspired by Lahinch, the legendary links course in Ireland. Golfers are told to aim at the white rock. The fifth hole has a 62-foot elevation change. The 10th hole has a 78-yard-long green with a huge valley in the middle.



While most of the reviews have celebrated the quirks, one harsh critique stood out. Under the headline "Errant Hills Award," Bradley Klein of Golfweek called the routing a mess and accused the designers, particularly Whitten, of taking "trendy minimalism to its absurd extreme." Klein concluded, "They should have thought 'inside the bun' on this one."

Whitten, who said he is friends with Klein, suspected he was getting payback for a Connecticut course he criticized in which Klein had a hand designing.

"It's just one opinion," Whitten said. "I always said the course isn't for everybody. It is a very right-brain course. If you don't like blind shots and quirky bounces, it isn't the course for you."

But Lang did try to make the course playable for everyone, insisting on four sets of tees, ranging from 5,434 to 7,824 yards. Erin Hills hardly is a pushover, but with a slope of 128 from the 6,544-yard green tees, you won't walk away feeling you've been in a fight.

Lang's goal is to provide customers with a pure golf experience. Toward that end, he bought three houses adjacent to Erin Hills with the intent of demolishing them. He didn't want anything to get in the way of the views.

"We want to offer an escape," he said. "If somebody thinks they can get away from civilization in a natural environment, that's what is satisfying to me."

Erin Hills is new, which means golfers will encounter some rough patches. But once it grows in, Lang's course could be on track to the ultimate prize: a U.S. Open.

----------

esherman@tribune.com
 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 07:21:50 AM by Paul Richards »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 10:52:23 AM »
Paul:

Thanks for that article. I'll be interested to hear reaction from folks as they make the trek to Erin Hills this year; last year's comments suggested it needed some more time to "grow in." I'm curious about the "logistics" remark, however; certainly the grounds can hold a US Open-like crowd, but where will they house everyone? Whistling Straits has the 5-star American Club just down the road; not sure what Hartford has in the way of similar lodging...




Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 10:53:43 AM »
I have heard nothing but extemes about this course. Most whom I respect on here have been very critical.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 10:54:54 AM »
I guess it's not possible for anyone (including Brad Klein) to have a negative opinion about the course -- if they do, it's just a vendetta.  That's why I have refrained from saying anything good or bad about it for the record.  

I do think it would be nice if they would stop using gushing quotes from the USGA guys about the site before anything was built, and start using quotes from people who played the course and really liked it.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 11:01:03 AM »
I guess it's not possible for anyone (including Brad Klein) to have a negative opinion about the course

Not true.  Brad had less-than-kind things to say about it in GW a couple of months ago (and I doubt he's a Vendetta-kind-of-guy):

Quote
"Errant Hills Award: Erin Hills, Hartford, Wisc. A much-ballyhooed new co-design of Golf Digest architecture editor Ron Whitten and professional designers Michael Hurdzan and Dana Fry. Too bad it opened a season early in late 2006, though inadequate fescue turf cover is the least of this sprawling daily fee’s problems. The U.S. Golf Association heralds it as a likely future U.S. Open site, but the routing is a mess, in large part because Whitten insisted on moving no dirt at all – thereby taking trendy “minimalism” to its absurd extreme. The raw site is great, but half a dozen holes are inexcusably awkward and much of the bunkering is overexcavated and unmaintainable. The 593-yard par-5 10th hole offers a blind, fall away Biarritz green; the short par-4 second putting surface ends before it begins; and the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2007, 11:07:02 AM »
OK, well, I played the course and really liked it.  I thought it was a blast to play.  I enjoyed the green contours, the fairway width and contours, the chances for heroic shots, the abililty to play safe when it was warranted.  I liked pretty much everything about the course except for the first hole (which I hated with a passion until I saw the fallaway green, which redeemed it slightly..slightly), and the first par 3 on the back.  Other than that, I loved it.

Sure you love it.  I have heard that before.  Is it a top 50 Modern on your ballot or are you just blowing smoke.

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 11:09:27 AM »
I do think it would be nice if they would stop using gushing quotes from the USGA guys about the site before anything was built, and start using quotes from people who played the course and really liked it.

That's what really struck me about the article as well. It's as if the USGA doesn't really care about how the course turned out, but was wanting to award an open to the "home run site" regardless of whether the course merited it or not.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2007, 11:10:40 AM »
Scott B:

Did you read Sherman's article?  He mentioned Klein's review directly and then quoted Ron Whitten as saying he thought it was payback for RW's negative review of Wintonbury Hills.  That's why I chose the word vendetta.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2007, 11:14:04 AM »
Scott,

I think you misunderstood Tom. I believe he meant that any criticism will be summarily dismissed.

You know, you dis' me, I'll dis' you.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 11:16:34 AM »
Scott B:

Did you read Sherman's article?  He mentioned Klein's review directly and then quoted Ron Whitten as saying he thought it was payback for RW's negative review of Wintonbury Hills.  That's why I chose the word vendetta.

 :-[ :-[ :-[

Oops.  No, I didn't read the article, and now I see why you chose the sarcasm-laden term 'vendetta'.  Seems like sour grapes on Whitten's part.  I heard that a number of other folks who played EH the same time Brad did also thought as he did, and they have no 'vendetta' against Whitten.  Or, I guess they must.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 11:17:20 AM by Scott_Burroughs »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 11:16:49 AM »
Yes Dave, but how does it hold up when compared to RJNGC?
 :)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 11:22:05 AM »
It's lines like this
Quote
Unveiled as a public course late last year, Erin Hills continues to be the most talked-about new facility in golf.
Which shows this is just another advertorial article.

The most talked about in golf?? that's a joke, right? Unless Mr. Sherman thinks he's at the center of that universe or has traveresed all of it recently.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 11:22:28 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 11:27:27 AM »
OK - Put me mostly is Shivas' camp including the first hole which is a travesty.  This place can potentially be really special. It has extreme flexibility in how holes will play depending on tees and conditions. It has tons of heroic shots that are really fun to play.  It is a great property and it does have the width necessary.

The weakensses in my mind are a couple of greens, some bunkering and the par 3's whcih are somewhat uninteresting.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 11:32:35 AM by GJChilds »

John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 11:38:54 AM »
Shivas,

Two things that I respect about you have just been confirmed.  You are not a yes man and you don't throw around the word love lightly.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 11:42:01 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2007, 11:43:01 AM »
Is this a natural green site?
Judging by the construction descriptions I've read it must be, but dirt moving quantities are quite subjective.
It looks like it was cut.
Actually it looks like a big fill pad too.



This ridge looks cool.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 11:43:18 AM »
Shivas,

I'm curious if you've been out to Bandon to play Pac Dunes yet?  Thats the finest modern course I"ve ever played by a longshot and if you think Erin Hills is better than that, then it would go on my list to play.  

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 11:44:49 AM »
I'll tell you what's apparently missing from your descriptions versus Dr. Klein's... Yours are evals on specific holes and his relates to the course as a whole.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2007, 11:52:02 AM »
Kalen, thanks for bringing up a very sore subject with me.  I have had 5 - count 'em 5!- trips to Bandon scheduled, and had to bail on each and every one of them for various reasons.  I am convinced that I am either jinxed and will never go there or that it is an urban legend that does not actually exist... ;)

Well that is pretty brutal...but in the end, you've got nothing to blame except your mixed up priorities.   ;D

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2007, 11:55:38 AM »
I am in complete agreement with TD and Adam.  I intend to see this course later in the year, when it grows in more fully.  As a homer cheesehead, I am in great hopes that it will be another gem for our state.  But, the hyperbole to date, particularly by the USGA before the course was even built seems rediculous.  Maybe, that sort of obvious advertorial content will actually work adversely for the overall acceptance of the course by building expectations too high, and then having golfers be let down after playing it.  Particularly if there is alot of quirk that most golfers become uncomfortable with.  

All this talk about vendetta amongst the top GCA rater gurus is unseemly and detracts from their mission, or proves that ratings in general are more business than service to golfers, which is where I come down.  

I'm quite happy to hear expressed and specific comments from people like Shivas who actually played there than listen to jive about how it is a leading candidate for an Open before it is even built or grown in.  

Hell, if you want to play the hyperbole game, I'll say Chambers Bay is the place to look towards for a new open championship venue, and it has everything from a totally solid design in a metro area that can accomodate everything needed for the big event from lodging and food, to a site that can hold many 1000s.  

Wouldn't it be something if they took away Torrey's Open next year and replaced it with one of these new, great venues?  Now, that would be a bold statement! :o 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim Colton

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2007, 12:28:55 PM »
I wonder how much of the USGA's arousal over this course has to do with the site or the course, and how much has to do with the fact that they can set this thing up as big and mean as they want in their obsession with protecting par.  Normally, the 'sea of fescue' plays as lateral hazard, certainly it wouldn't be that way for a potential Open.  I seriously considered signing up the US Pub Links qualifier they have at EH in June, but got scared off by the potential that I might shoot 98 and get blacklisted from future USGA events.

Although I haven't seen the course, I think Brad Klein's comments are in the right direction.  I love the minimalist approach as much as the next guy, but not minimalism for the sake of minimalism.  If moving twice as much dirt as they did would mean a golf course that was even 10% better, by all means go for it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 12:32:23 PM by Jim Colton »

Jim Colton

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2007, 12:34:17 PM »
Quote
While making his money in the greeting card and calendar business, Lang initially sought to build a cozy nine-hole course.

By the way, I've GOT to get into the greetings card business.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 12:39:34 PM by Jim Colton »

Adam Clayman

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Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2007, 12:36:30 PM »
Dave, Maybe it wasn't fair? But, I would like to read some of the more accomplished posters as yourself elevate the disscusion to encompass more than what specific shots you were proud of.

Dick's analysis of CB only highlighted managements err in not allowing him to play.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

George Pazin

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Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2007, 01:10:16 PM »
Call me crazy, but I'm actually curious to see what minimalism to the extreme yields on superior land.

Maybe not the best possible course, but certainly an interesting experiment.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2007, 01:26:53 PM »
Shivas and Dr. Childs:

Can the first hole be fixed? What specifically would need fixing? I remember some alluding to the Bog; would a fix require a fill-in to a DNR-sacred wetlands, and thus be architecturally feasible but perhaps not politically? Can they do some wetlands trading, ala WStraits (the guy does have 600-some acres to work with...). Or does the routing -- it's the only way to get "out" into the course -- compromise the possibility of a fix?


John Kavanaugh

Re:Erin Hills - 'An Infant Classic'
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2007, 03:06:47 PM »
How do you know which of those holes is this extra hole.

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