A question about Tom Fazio's resume

[T.J. Sturges]

I'm just curious on why he would have been the architect selected by ANGC to "update" the golf course.  Does anyone know the body of renovation work performed by his design group?  I noticed when I was in the clubhouse at Pine Valley that he is not only a member there, he was listed on the membership board as one of the board members, so that provides some explanation of why they have him involved there.

But why was he the one selected to "fix" ANGC.  What other successful renovation projects has his firm completed? What other high profile renovation projects (other than PV) has his firm completed?  As a side question, has any one of his original designs ever hosted a major championship?  I'd really appreciate it if those more familiar with his firm's work would fill in the gaps for me on this question.

Thanks.

TS

[Mike Hoak]

He is, or was at one time, a consulting architect for Augusta, Pine Valley, Riviera, Oakmont, and Winged Foot.  The only major championship contested at a Fazio designed course was the 1987 PGA Championship at PGA National (I wonder why they played there )--a course which has since been "redesigned" by Jack Nicklaus.

[T.J. Sturges]

Was he responsible for the tree removal at WF and Oakmont?

TS

[Mike Hoak]

The tree removal at Oakmont was driven by a handful of influential Board members.  At Winged Foot, I do not know what, if any, role he had in the tree removal process there.  

[Ryan Farrow]

Oakmonts tree removal began over 10 years ago but since I have to adhear to a strict code of ethics now....ahhh It was obviously the Fazio teams idea, they did a great job!


Here is a good article from the local paper about how the tree removal started:

http://postgazette.com/pg/07042/761220-382.stm

[Pete Lavallee]

That's a great question Ted, I was going to start a similar thread.

His uncle George  Fazio was the Touring Pro that represented Pine Valley, hence the association. He designed the par 3 course at Pine Valley. According to his book he resisted doing  that, feeling he couldn't top what existed at the 18 hole course. When the Chairman suggested they copy the  existing holes, to give members a place to practice the shots they would need on the big course, he relented and built 8 copies and 2 original holes to link together the copies.

But he has obvious disdain for Golden Age architects. He claims stategy is not the interplay of risk and reward, but the balance of difficulty verses playability. Why then would Golden Age courses turn to him? Possibly because he isn't afraid to change them radically; to make them better with his modern construction techniques. Could it be that his construction techniques, although costly, get the job done quickly, allowing the course to be back in play much sooner than with someone who would want to be on site tweeking things by hand until they are perfect?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I assume he is now also credited with a renovation at Merion.

[Jeff_Mingay]

What's very interesting to me is, Fazio escaped the harsh criticism he and Uncle George received following their late 1970s renovations at Inverness (Toledo) and Oak Hill in preparation for major championships.  

Those two jobs are widely disdained; and, the changes they made haven't been easy to fix (attempts have been made). Yet Pine Valley, Augusta, Merion, Riviera, et al. still call.  

[RJ_Daley]

I think it is about where on the powerful friends totem pole that Fazio was sitting at the time the members started deliberating more seriously about Tiger proofing their course.  So in about 1998, they looked around, in their social circles and didn't find Tom Doak, Ron Forse, or others of restoration faithfulness ilk, or even Bill and Ben (although I wouldn't be surprised if they were asked and declined), and found Tom Fazio sitting among the strata of folk that run in their circles.  Obviously, looking in those circles would have also found Jack and Arnie.  But, in 1998 or so when the real Tiger proofing entered the equation, Fazio was already the top prefered archie of the elete set, including the Merion board.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I think it is about where on the powerful friends totem pole that Fazio was sitting at the time the members started deliberating more seriously about Tiger proofing their course.  So in about 1998, they looked around, in their social circles and didn't find Tom Doak, Ron Forse, or others of restoration faithfulness ilk, or even Bill and Ben (although I wouldn't be surprised if they were asked and declined), and found Tom Fazio sitting among the strata of folk that run in their circles.  Obviously, looking in those circles would have also found Jack and Arnie.  But, in 1998 or so when the real Tiger proofing entered the equation, Fazio was already the top prefered archie of the elete set, including the Merion board.  

Wasn't that around the time that Riviera hired Crenshaw and he mucked it up... From what I recall as a golfer that was the worst job ever done for a major.  After watching all those IBM commercials this weekend I would think hiring Fazio is a natural choice.  

[tlavin]

I'm guessing that the captains of industry at ANGC would never be able to get Crenshaw or Doak to go along with the tree planting that they wanted to do.  Those men would probably decline to be involved in tinkering with the shrine.  Fazio obviously had no ethical issues with putting his stamp on the golf course.  Given the fact that ANGC is a golf conglomerate and not a golf museum, I think he was quite justified in accepting the work and I also happen to believe that he didn't "ruin" the course, but rather did make it tougher for professionals to beat up the course.

[Steve Lapper]

The tree removal at Oakmont was driven by a handful of influential Board members.  At Winged Foot, I do not know what, if any, role he had in the tree removal process there.  

None! It was an internally driven idea, coupled with the installation of the new irrigation system.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Correct me if I am wrong here but Coore and Crenshaw were told agaisnst their better judgement to SOD the greens at Riviera rather then seed them.  It was the judgement of others that SOD would take faster so the greens could be ready for the 1995 (?) pre-Tiger PGA championship.  It turned out to be a terrible decision as the greens were in sad shape for that tournament. I don't know if the work was contracted too late to seed the greens or perhaps seeding would have worked out better.  I believe that is all that was done to the course.  No new green shapes and pin locations.  No new unusable alternate fairways  No horrible new bunkers.

[George Pazin]

Geoff, no need to let facts get in the way when JK has an agenda to push....

 

[John Kavanaugh]

Geoff, no need to let facts get in the way when JK has an agenda to push....

 

What did I possibly say that wasn't true.  I would guess that was the worst conditioned course for a major in my lifetime where the fault could directly be placed on the architect.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoff, no need to let facts get in the way when JK has an agenda to push....

 

What did I possibly say that wasn't true.  I would guess that was the worst conditioned course for a major in my lifetime where the fault could directly be placed on the architect.

IF what I wrote is true then how is the architect to blame for the course conditions?

[John Kavanaugh]

I really don't know unless the architect was the manager of the job also in charge of turf issues.  I have never bought the notion that the architect is not responsible for grass choices.  I will admit that I don't think I have ever seen newly planted trees as well done as those at Augusta...Tiger would have gotten relief on 11 just from the stakes and wires you see at most places.

[Rich Goodale]

Geoff

If Coore and Crenshaw didn't like the sodding decision, they should have quit.  That would be the professional thing to do.  By staying on, overseing the process and (I assume) taking Riviera's money, they also took responsibility for the result.

[Tom_Doak]

John K and Rich G:

I was interviewed for the job at Riviera back then, and one of their questions was whether we would agree to resod the greens as their agronomist had recommended could be done.  I said no way; and after their failure, I have always resisted the push to sod any green to get a course back in play faster.  (The only exception:  if the sod is grown at the course so the soils will match perfectly.)

It was management's call to sod those greens.  I suppose Bill and Ben could have said "no, thanks" to the work, but once you are consulting at a club and you've rebuilt everything and they make that call against your better judgment, what do you do?  Even if you walk away it's still gonna be "your fault".

[Joel_Stewart]

I believe he also did Oak Hill.  So to recap, he has worked on,

ANGC
Pine Valley
Winged Foot
Merion
Oakmont
Oak Hill
Riveria

Reworked original designs,

Butler National
Edgewood Tahoe
Pelican Hill
Wade Hampton

Its a pretty impressive list considering he once told an audience that he and his uncle decided a long time ago not to do restoration work.   I was told by a fairly good source that a few years ago he was so upset by the media calling Rees Jones "the Open Doctor" that he started soliciting the work, often at no charge.

[Michael Dugger]

Tom

Frankly, I am amazed you bother answering questions of this sort from Mr. Kav.

Next he's going to start ripping you for the turf blunders at Apache.

Isn't the bottomline business dealings are always complicated.  Let's really get down to brass tacks here....

During the interview process, was C & C asked the same question as Doak in regards to sod vs turf?

What was their answer?

Was the management of Riv disingenuous on their part?  I.E. did they agree with C & C initially, and then pull a power play with the sod?

Many questions must be answered to really get to the heart of the matter.  But like George Pazin pointed out, this isn't really about seeking truth as much as it is John pushing an agenda.

[SL_Solow]

I wish Geoff could check in on this one.  I recall him writing extensively on this issue at the time.  My recollection of the substance is imprecise so I do not want to post any misleading info but Geoff was present at the time and is probably the best source.  I'll try to dig up his statements.