[Jeff Doerr]

Let's do the math...

The field is probably about +5 or +6 on their index as an average. The scoring average for the first two rounds was 75.9061. The would make for a rating of about...

81.9 slope of 155 (probably should be higher)

So you break 100!!!

99 - 81.9 = 17.1

17.1 * 113 / 155 = 12.47

12.47 * .96 = 11.97

So, in theory, if you are a 12 or better and played to your index, you could break 100.

I'm guessing with the pucker factor and the true slope in the 160 range, you'd need to be a solid 8 or less to really have a shot at breaking 100.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm having trouble believing ANGC is ten shots harder than Riviera in tournament conditions.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played Baltusrol from PGA tourney tees the week before the PGA was played.  I shot 85 and felt as though I played as well as I could.  The conditions at the Masters make it almost impossible for club players.  I'l bet I could four putt #9, but only if I could make a five putter.  Let's just say my 5 handicap would not travel well.

[Tom Birkert]

I played Riviera from the plates and it was way, way too tough for me to shoot anything close to my handicap.

In my defence I had just got off a plane and was massively jet lagged, would like to think I'd do better this summer.

That said, while Riviera is undoubtedly very long and tough from the plates, it doesn't have the water in play that Augusta does, nor the greens as fast. Those two factors alone would contribute to a higher score for a handicap golfer at Augusta.

[RJ_Daley]

I'd have to take only 5 clubs (no driver or 3W) and dink it down FWs - not trying to hit anything more than 160 and stay out of trees and water, and try to play to almost every green in 2 over regulation.  Add in many 3 putts, and hope for about 112.  I'd need some miracles, however...  

[Michael Whitaker]

I was out there today...greens are extremely firm...I think I could break 90.

Joe is a caddy at Augusta National and a very good player who qualified for the USGA Mid-Am last year... so, he is not speculating about the course. He knows what he is talking about. He can give you some real insight on AN.

[Michael Whitaker]

Add in many 3 putts, and hope for about 112.  I'd need some miracles, however...  

Dick - How's that putting going? I thought we had that figured out!!! Holding your finish?

[tlavin]

I'm having trouble believing ANGC is ten shots harder than Riviera in tournament conditions.

Ten's a stretch, but you can get into more trouble on and around the greens at ANGC, it seems to me.

[Doug Wright]

I figure I could par two holes, bogey say six of them and double bogey the other 12, which would equal 30 over or 102. (5-7 handicap)

[Cliff Hamm]

Watching Mickelson's fabulous short game, I began to wonder what one would shoot, even if they played from his last shot into the green.  As he gets up and down many of us would take extra shots.  I venture to say that when Phil shoots 75, most would have trouble breaking 90 playing his ball, but you chipping and putting.  The severity and speed of the greens cannot be overstated.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think that the big hitters would have the toughest time as they would expect lower scores than the short knockers, like me, who could bunt it around the course and perhaps keep it under double bogey - 102 sounds like a good score.

[David Ober]

Probably between 80 and 90. As low as 77 or 78 and as high as 94 or 95.

I play a lot of golf at Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, California (~7100 and 75.3/143.). Tom Pernice Jr. is a member and plays there all the time. He shoots 67 - 70 most rounds and will go slightly lower than that when he plays well. He plays with "The Guys" all the time in the Friday and Saturday skins games when he's in town. I generally shoot 70 to 76 on that course when my back is feeling okay unless it's set up very difficult or I have a poor round.

Three or four weeks ago, a local top mid-am, Steve Nichols, shot a nice 64 at Pernice, and I think Pernice shot 68 or 69 that day.

Last year's U.S. Mid-Am champ, Womack (I think that's his name), shot two rounds in the 80's. I have played against two U.S. Mid-Am champs and a U.S. Publinks champ: Danny Green, Greg Puga, and Tim Hogarth, and in any given round I am capable of beating them, though they are going to get the best of me most of the time in a four-round tournament.

I'm sure Mucci is going to have a cow at my statement, but so be it. I have no doubt that I could shoot in the 80's at Augusta in today's conditions, and even in the 70's if I putted well.

There's at least one other player on this board (and probably others) that I know could do the same thing: Andrew Biggadike.

Oh yeah: To shoot anything decent, I'd have to take a cart, because walking that course would give me a frickin' heart attack! LOL!

[johnk]

These threads are always funny.  Having seen a good number of GCAer's play recently (at a little dog track in East Lothian , I think I can make a rough estimate:

Note that Augusta plays a bit longer than most courses GCAers would play, so I'm putting an effective par, and then the estimated score of the average GCA poster.

#  Yards  Effective Par  Avg GCA score
1  450yd  5                 7
2  575yd  5                 7
3  350yd  4                 6
4  240yd  4                 5
5  455yd  5                 6
6  180yd  3                 5
7  450yd  5                 6
8  570yd  5                 7
9  460yd  5                 7
10 495yd 5                 6
11 505yd 5                 7
12 155yd 3                 5
13 510yd 5                 7
14 440yd 4                 6
15 530yd 5                 7
16 170yd 3                 5
17 440yd 4                 6
18 465yd 5                 6
TOTAL   90               111


I think that sounds about right for the avg GCA 12 hcp'er.

[Mike_Young]

Probably between 80 and 90. As low as 77 or 78 and as high as 94 or 95.

I play a lot of golf at Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, California (~7100 and 75.3/143.). Tom Pernice Jr. is a member and plays there all the time. He shoots 67 - 70 most rounds and will go slightly lower than that when he plays well. He plays with "The Guys" all the time in the Friday and Saturday skins games when he's in town. I generally shoot 70 to 76 on that course when my back is feeling okay unless it's set up very difficult or I have a poor round.

Three or four weeks ago, a local top mid-am, Steve Nichols, shot a nice 64 at Pernice, and I think Pernice shot 68 or 69 that day.

Last year's U.S. Mid-Am champ, Womack (I think that's his name), shot two rounds in the 80's. I have played against two U.S. Mid-Am champs and a U.S. Publinks champ: Danny Green, Greg Puga, and Tim Hogarth, and in any given round I am capable of beating them, though they are going to get the best of me most of the time in a four-round tournament.

I'm sure Mucci is going to have a cow at my statement, but so be it. I have no doubt that I could shoot in the 80's at Augusta in today's conditions, and even in the 70's if I putted well.

There's at least one other player on this board (and probably others) that I know could do the same thing: Andrew Biggadike.

Oh yeah: To shoot anything decent, I'd have to take a cart, because walking that course would give me a frickin' heart attack! LOL!

DAVID,
IT IS OBVIOUS YOU MUST BE A GOOD PLAYER.....HAVE YOU QUALIFIED FOR MATCHPLAY IN ANY USGA EVENTS?
IT IS MY OPINION THAT MOST SCRATCH PLAYERS WOULD NOT BREAK 100.....MYSELF I HAVE SHOT 73 AT ANGC DURING THE SEASON BT COULD NOT BREAK 100 DURING TOURNEY......
I THINK THAT MOST PLAYERS BELOW THE LEVEL OF USGA MATCHPLAY COMPETITION WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME GOING UNDER 100.....
ALSO MOST TOUR EVENT COURSES ARE NOT SET THAT DIFFICULT....THIS IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT COURSE THAN A TOUR COURSE...PLAYING A TOUR PLAYER AT YOUR HOME CLUB AND PLAYING UNDER THE GUN ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS
BUT WOULD WISH YOU THE BEST....
MIKE

[RJ_Daley]

Mike W., the "Norman" hold the finish along the line has been working well on the long putts, and I drained two 25-30fters the other day (before the snow moved back in   )  I'm still struggling to stay on task with holding/stopping the putterhead on those short 2fters.    But, maybe it will sink in and I can take on McBride again and have a chance...  

[Eric_Terhorst]

#  Yards  Effective Par  Avg GCA score
1  450yd  5                 7
2  575yd  5                 7
3  350yd  4                 6
4  240yd  4                 5
5  455yd  5                 6
6  180yd  3                 5
7  450yd  5                 6
8  570yd  5                 7
9  460yd  5                 7
10 495yd 5                 6
11 505yd 5                 7
12 155yd 3                 5
13 510yd 5                 7
14 440yd 4                 6
15 530yd 5                 7
16 170yd 3                 5
17 440yd 4                 6
18 465yd 5                 6
TOTAL   90               111

I think that sounds about right for the avg GCA 12 hcp'er.

John,

I think I could make 6s instead of hockey sticks on a couple of your par 5s, so please put me down for 108  

[Jim Nugent]

Mike, I think Ober is about a +2 or +3.  He came in 2nd in last year's So CA Mid-Am, IIRC.

My guess is that ANGC's slope would be around 200: I figure a 20 handicap, who drives the ball 200 yards, would shoot around 120 to 125 under Masters conditions.  Also think course rating under Masters conditions probably is around 85.  

If so, you'd need around a 7.5 handicap index, to average 99 at ANGC on your best 10 of 20 rounds.  

ETA: has anyone on this site played the course from the Masters tees?  How did you do, even without the greens stimping at 12 or 13 or whatever?  

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike Young,

How many strokes have the added length, rough and trees added to your fantasy score?

Anyone else in town for the frozen four?  

[PCCraig]

About 80-85.

By the standards of most of the courses I generally play, ANGC is pretty wide open still...with or without the new trees, and even if you do hit it in the rough, you may as well be teeing it up.

I'm sure I would have a couple of rough holes, but there are a ton of pars out there for me.

Pat

[Joe Hancock]

Ben Crenshaw shot 90.....you guys are better than Ben?

[PCCraig]

John,

Not in STL for the frozen four...but go BC!

Pat

[ed_getka]

I was out there today...greens are extremely firm...I think I could break 90.

Joe is a caddy at Augusta National and a very good player who qualified for the USGA Mid-Am last year... so, he is not speculating about the course. He knows what he is talking about. He can give you some real insight on AN.

Michael,
   Well there you go, that just proves my point. Joe IS a stick, AND he caddies there, AND he is speculating that he could break 90. Sounds like one of the few realistic ones in the bunch.

#15 doesn't require you to get over the water, you can just go around on the right side on terra firma.

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike W., the "Norman" hold the finish along the line has been working well on the long putts, and I drained two 25-30fters the other day (before the snow moved back in   )  I'm still struggling to stay on task with holding/stopping the putterhead on those short 2fters.    But, maybe it will sink in and I can take on McBride again and have a chance...  

McBride will never forgive me, but here you go: http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/article/0,28136,1565215,00.html

[Mark Arata]

My goal would be to better 108......I would give myself a fighting chance, but it would be close. I cant hit the ball far enough to challenge any of the par 5's and I dont put enough spin on wedges to hold some of those greens, but it would be fun to try.......

[Mike Hendren]

Even if I played well for the first time in a while,  I would not finish.  I could bunt it around, but could not finish the 15th hole, given my inability to spin the ball with a wedge.  My only hope would be to lay up in three and aim for the right-hand greenside bunker with my fourth since I'm still a decent sand player.  

I like Mike Young's take.  We are talking about shot requirements that so few of us on this site have ever fathomed, much less experienced.  

Mike

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