GOLF DIGEST TOP 100(OUTSIDE THE U.S.A)

[Donal Breasail]

http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/world/index.ssf?/courses/world/gd200705planetgolf.html

just incase anyone has not seen it.Acouple of big names left out.

[Mark Pearce]

Another list that demonstrates the futility and subjectivity of rankings.

[David_Elvins]

The Barnbougle Dunes/Cape Kidnappers paradox continues.  Most who has played both says they like Barnbougle better, every ranking favours Kidnappers, this time ranking 50+ places higher  

[Wayne_Kozun]

From a Canadian perspective it is very interesting that Devil's Paintbrush is not on the list yet Beacon Hall is #52.  It is also surprising that Royal Montreal Blue is so highly rated when the course has been substantially renovated - presumably the course being ranked has not been played by many of the rankers.

Other surprises - The European Club at #27, well above North Berwick and Royal Liverpool?

I have never been to the Middle East but I would be shocked if Emirates Golf Club is better than dozens of courses here in Canada that are not on the list or scores of other British and Aussie courses.

[Tom_Doak]

David E:

The difference between Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle could be as simple as that Kidnappers is considered by many to be the best course in New Zealand, and Barnbougle can't rate ahead of Royal Melbourne as the best in its country.

(Wow, I just looked at the list, they do have Kidnappers rated pretty high on there.)

The bottom half of the list seems to include a number of token entries to include one course from many countries, however, the craziest entry is the New course at St. Andrews.  I'm skipping playing it on Sunday even though we had to pay for it to play the Old Course backwards ... and I wouldn't be skipping it if it were really anywhere near the top 100 courses outside the US.

[Gary Slatter]

From a Canadian perspective it is very interesting that Devil's Paintbrush is not on the list yet Beacon Hall is #52.  It is also surprising that Royal Montreal Blue is so highly rated when the course has been substantially renovated - presumably the course being ranked has not been played by many of the rankers.

Other surprises - The European Club at #27, well above North Berwick and Royal Liverpool?

I have never been to the Middle East but I would be shocked if Emirates Golf Club is better than dozens of courses here in Canada that are not on the list or scores of other British and Aussie courses.

I agree, Beacon Hall and Angus Glen have many better in Canada alone.  But "lists" create interest and this one is no different.

[mike_malone]

 I was shocked the other day to read the Phila. Inquirer's article about this list. Their lead was how RCD had usurped TOC as #1. When I went to GD's website I could see how they screwed this up. RCD is the photo at the top of the list.

  I thought I was the only person who didn't read beyond the headlines !

[JESII]

Mayday,


http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/world/index.ssf?/courses/world/gd200705planetgolf.html

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I was shocked the other day to read the Phila. Inquirer's article about this list. Their lead was how RCD had usurped TOC as #1. When I went to GD's website I could see how they screwed this up. RCD is the photo at the top of the list.

  I thought I was the only person who didn't read beyond the headlines !

They actually did have a different list up with RCD on the top.  They changed the list in the last day or two.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

   Thanks for that. I'd hate to think The Inqy could be wrong, particularly the sports page  

[Sean Leary]

What do our western Canadian contributors think about Greywolf surpassing Banff, and Jasper Park being not included at all...?

[Bill Gayne]

The date on the article is May 2005.

[David_Elvins]

David E:

The difference between Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle could be as simple as that Kidnappers is considered by many to be the best course in New Zealand, and Barnbougle can't rate ahead of Royal Melbourne as the best in its country.

I agree many would have difficulty rating it ahead of Royal Melbourne.  But the Australasian Order is:

Royal Melbourne
Cape Kidnappers
Kingston heath
New South Wales
Ellerston
Royal Adelaide
Metropolitan

and then
Barnbougle Dunes

On the one hand you think maybe th tradition of the established Melbourne clubs puts them ahead of Barnbougle in some people's eyes, but it hasn't stopped Cape Kidnappers and Ellerston jumping up there.  

By the way, I am suprised enough raters have played Ellerston.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The links on this thread go to an old ranking.  Here is the new list.  RCD is #1.

100 BEST COURSES OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES

1. Royal County Down G.C. Newcastle, N. Ireland
2. St. Andrews Links (Old) St. Andrews, Scotland
3. Royal Dornoch G.C. (Championship) Dornoch, Scotland
4. Royal Portrush G.C. (Dunluce) Portrush, N. Ireland
5. Muirfield Gullane, Scotland
6. Royal Melbourne G.C. (Composite) Black Rock, Australia
7. Ballybunion G.C. (Old) Ballybunion, Ireland
8. Turnberry Hotel (Ailsa) Turnberry, Scotland
9. Carnoustie G. Links (Championship) Carnoustie, Scotland
10. Cape Kidnappers G. Cse. Hawke’s Bay, New Zealand
11. Loch Lomond G.C. Luss, Scotland
12. Sunningdale G.C. (Old) Sunningdale, England
13. G. de Morfontaine Morfontaine, France
14. New South Wales G.C. Sydney, Australia
15. Kingston Heath G.C. Melbourne, Australia
16. Royal St. George’s G.C. Sandwich, England
17. Kingsbarns G. Links St. Andrews, Scotland
18. Royal Birkdale G.C. Southport, England
19. Hirono G.C. Hyogo, Japan
20. Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog) La Romana, Dominican Republic
21. Royal Porthcawl G.C. Porthcawl, Wales
22. Royal Troon G.C. (Old) Troon, Scotland
23. Lahinch G.C. (Old) Lahinch, Ireland
24. Portmarnock G.C. (Old) Portmarnock, Ireland
25. Royal Lytham and St. Annes G.C. Lytham St. Annes, England
26. St. George’s G. & C.C. Islington, Ontario, Canada
27. The European Club Brittas Bay, Ireland
28. Cabo del Sol G.C. (Ocean) Los Cabos, Mexico
29. Woodhall Spa G.C. (Hotchkin) Woodhall Spa, England
30. Kauri Cliffs G.C. & Lodge Northland, New Zealand
31. Ganton G.C. Ganton, England
32. Cruden Bay G.C. Cruden Bay, Scotland
33. Royal Liverpool G.C. Hoylake, England
34. National G.C. Woodbridge, Ontario, Canada
35. Kawana Hotel G.C. (Fiji) Shizuoka, Japan
36. Hamilton G. & C.C. Ancaster, Ontario, Canada
37. Leopard Creek G. Estate & C.C. Malelane, South Africa
38. Highlands Links Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada
39. Ellerston G.C. Hunter Valley, Australia
40. Tokyo G.C. Saitama, Japan
41. Gary Player C.C. Sun City, South Africa
42. Western Gailes G.C. Irvine, Scotland
43. Carne G. Links Belmullet, Ireland
44. Macrihanish G.C. Macrihanish, Scotland
45. The C. at Nine Bridges Jeju Island, South Korea
46. Valderrama G.C. Sotogrande, Spain
47. Fancourt Hotel & C.C. Estate (The Links) George, South Africa
48. Waterville G. Links Waterville, Ireland
49. Mid Ocean Club Tucker’s Town, Bermuda
50. North Berwick G.C. North Berwick, Scotland
51. Royal Adelaide G.C. Adelaide, Australia
52. Beacon Hall G.C. Aurora, Ontario, Canada
53. Metropolitan G.C. Melbourne, Australia
54. Capilano G.C. West Vancouver, B.C., Canada
55. Old Head G. Links Kinsale, Ireland
56. Royal Aberdeen G.C. (Balgownie) Aberdeen, Scotland
57. Barnbougle Dunes G. Links Bridport, Tasmania, Australia
58. Spring City G. & Lake Resort (Lake) Kunming, China
59. Olivos G.C. Buenos Aires, Argentina
60. Arabella Estate & G.C. Kleinmond, South Africa
61. Swinley Forest G.C. Ascot, England
62. Durban C.C. Durban, South Africa
63. Shaughnessy G. & C.C. Vancouver, B.C., Canada
64. Spring City G. & Lake Resort (Mountain) Kunming, China
65. Paraparaumu Beach G.C. Paraparaumu Beach, New Zealand
66. Walton Heath G.C. (Old) Walton-on-the-Hill, England
67. Halmstad G.C. Halmstad, Sweden
68. G. de Moliets Moliets, France
69. Royal Zoute G.C. Knokke, Belgium
70. Redtail G. Cse. St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
71. Royal Montreal G.C. (Blue) Ile Bizard, Quebec, Canada
72. Emirates G.C. (Wadi) Dubai, United Arab Emirates
73. Royal St. David’s G.C. Harlech, Wales
74. Kasumigaseki C.C. (East) Saitama, Japan
75. Emirates G.C. (Majlis) Dubai, United Arab Emirates
76. Sotogrande G.C. Sotogrande, Spain
77. Punta Espada G.C. Cap Cana, Dominican Republic
78. G. de Spérone Bonifacio, Corsica, France
79. Buenos Aires G.C. Bella Vista, Buenos Aires, Argentina
80. Troia G. Setúbal, Lisbon, Portugal
81. G.C. du Domaine Impérial Gland, Switzerland
82. Sand G.C. Jönköping, Sweden
83. Banff Springs G.C. (Stanley Thompson) Banff, Alberta, Canada
84. Vilamoura G.C. (Victoria) Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
85. Sherwood Hills G.C. Cavite, Philippines
86. Jockey Club (Colorada) San Isidro, Buenos Aires, Argentina
87. G.C. Biella Le Betulle Magnano, Biella, Italy
88. Hamburger G.C. Falkenstein, Hamburg, Germany
89. G. Les Bordes Beaugency, France
90. Naruo G.C. Hyogo, Japan
91. Royal Cinque Ports G.C. Deal, England
92. Blue Canyon G. & C.C. (Canyon) Phuket, Thailand
93. St. Andrews (New) St. Andrews, Scotland
94. County Louth G.C. Baltray, Ireland
95. Nirwana Bali G.C. Bali, Indonesia
96. Noordwijkse G.C. Noordwijk, The Netherlands
97. El Dorado G.C. Los Cabos, Mexico
98. The National G.C. (Moonah) Cape Schanck, Australia
99. Pinx G.C. Jeju Island, South Korea
100. Itanhangá G.C. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

MAP: Copyright ©2006 SASI Group (University of Sheffield) and Mark Newman (University of Michigan)

[Mike_Clayton]

Dave,
I have difficulty with ranking a course -Elleston - that almost no one can play - especially when they send notes out to local magazines asking them not to rate the course.

I have played there and its a good course but the mystique factor must be pretty high.The reality is that there can be no critical examination of the course.
I do not think its as good a course as the Harrison/Norman Moonah course at The National - which is about 60 places behind it - and too low on this list.
How can any serious magazine publish a list that has Blue Canyon above the Moonah course?
It destroys their credibility right away.

[David_Elvins]

Dave,
I have difficulty with ranking a course -Elleston - that almost no one can play - especially when they send notes out to local magazines asking them not to rate the course.

I have played there and its a good course but the mystique factor must be pretty high.The reality is that there can be no critical examination of the course.
I do not think its as good a course as the Harrison/Norman Moonah course at The National - which is about 60 places behind it - and too low on this list.
How can any serious magazine publish a list that has Blue Canyon above the Moonah course?
It destroys their credibility right away.

In comparison to the other Australasian courses, I would have thought the Moonah was about right (if not a little high).  Which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Ellerston's position, given what you have said.  Then again, some of the courses immediatly behind Ellerston (Nine Bridges, Gary Player CC, Farncourt, Valderama) haven't exactly inspired either.

I think I should stop writing and accept that the list involves some sort of lucky dip.  

[Andrew Thomson]

The difference between Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle could be as simple as that Kidnappers is considered by many to be the best course in New Zealand,

Really?  Pretty much everyone I know still considers Paraparaumu Beach the better course - and I can't say I disagree.

[Matthew Hunt]

Good to see RCD and European Club so high.

RCD got Gerry(Armani)Adams and Big Ian(Paisley) off the top news story yesterday for the the first time in Weeks, Who said ratings can't do some good!!!

[James_Livingston]

I have difficulty with ranking a course -Elleston - that almost no one can play - especially when they send notes out to local magazines asking them not to rate the course.How can any serious magazine publish a list that has Blue Canyon above the Moonah course?
It destroys their credibility right away.

Mike, do you have any problem rating Metropolitan above Barnbougle?

New Zealand have dropped from 6 courses to 3.  Not that I had ever heard of Russley.  

[Bob Jenkins]

Thank you, Tommy. I spent too much time yesterday trying to find Greywolf on the list ahead of Banff as Sean had pointed out. I am not going crazy after all. I had gone to the GD site to check the list and found no trace of Greywolf. No wonder.

This is a difficult list to challenge in that very few would have played a fair cross section of these courses around the world. Those from Scotland, Ireland, England, Canada and Australia would be more likely to be listed simply because they are better known than most  and clearly the old country courses are near the top.

As for Canadian courses, I would have thought Jasper would be in there but otherwise the order of ranking is not surprising considering past rankings in this country.

Sean, re Greywolf, I have heard good things but have never played it or other courses in that area of the Kootenays. It is a Doug Carrick course and from what I understand he is a buddy of Mr. Whitten.

Bob Jenkins

[Mike_Clayton]

James,
No answer to that question - I will upset someone what ever answer I give!!

[James_Livingston]

Understandably diplomatic Mike.  I'm guessing Dave is right, although this one seems to be more of a lucky dip than most.  At least this time around Australia has more courses on the list than New Zealand!

[Marty Bonnar]

Did it ever occur to GD that folks who 'actually live outside the US' couldn't give a rat's what they think?

What is it about COMPARISON that the magazines and, I assume, their readership find so fascinating. Whatever happened to simply appreciating?

Why does one place HAVE to be better than another? Maybe egalitarianism is dead after all. Does that mean I have to vote SNP?

FBD.

[ed_getka]

David Elvins,
   What makes Metropolitan so good in your opinion? In my notes I have compiled in the past year the main point of emphasis seemed to be great conditioning.
    What is your take on the placement of Kauri Cliffs? I have no intention of seeing it from what I have heard from numerous people, but I would be shocked if it is better than Cruden Bay or North Berwick just to name a couple.

[Shane Gurnett]

Ed. Metro is a very good course with no obvious dog holes. Conditioning is usually of a very high standard. A relatively flat piece of property with a few standout holes (2, 5, 8 for example) and some recent new work on the back nine to address boundary issues. Worth seeing if you have time whilst out here.

Shane.