[Michael Robin]

The first time I played The Valley Club of Montecito was when I was in high school in 1980. The member I was playing with said as we walked to the 3rd tee "You're about to play one of the Best Holes in the State." He was certainly right as the great 3rd certainly is in that company. That statement has stuck with me since and as I play a hole that qualifies, I make a mental note that it should be on that list.

My question to the treehouse is "What are the Best Holes in your Area."
You can use whatever jurisdiction that you feel is appropriate.

I'll start. What are the Best Holes in Southern California?

In no particular order:

10th at Riviera
18th at Riviera
10th at Bel Air
3rd at Valley Club of Montecito
11th at LACC
5th at Lakeside
16th at Rustic Canyon
14th at Rancho Park(from the chute)
6th at Riviera
18th at Wilshire
16th at Lake Sherwood
6th at Stone Eagle
18th at Ojai(current routing)

There's a SoCal baker's dozen. Let the lists begin

[Mike_Clayton]

Best Holes in Melbourne

4 Royal Melbourne West
5 RMW
6 RMW
10 RMW
11 RMW
12 RMW
16 RMW
17 RWM
12 Kingston Heath
15 KH
15 Woodlands
5 Yarra Yarra

[Ryan Farrow]

Here is the hole in question #3:




How about the hole on the other side of the creek? I am a big fan of #13. Very simple hole, play close to the creek (the cart path and some trees could go away) for the best angle into the green.




There are a lot of great holes at the Valley club and I will throw in #6 as well, great short hole drivable with a little punchbowl green.



#13 @ Rustic was an absolute blast to play.




#4 at Riviera, greatest hole I have ever played.

[Chris Kane]

4 Royal Melbourne West
5 RMW
6 RMW
10 RMW
11 RMW
12 RMW
16 RMW
17 RWM
12 Kingston Heath
15 KH
15 Woodlands
5 Yarra Yarra

No room for 16 at Commonwealth Mike?

[Mike_Clayton]

Chris,

It would have made the top 13 - and 9 and 15 would make the top 18.
I guess it was out of the 5th at Yarra and 16th at Commonwealth.

On another topic - I saw Matt Griffen at the Ausralian Amateur yesterday.He missed qualifying but said he would be over on June.Hopefully we can catch up then.

They cancelled the 4th round of stroke play because of the wind at NSW. It's awfully hard to play there if the wind is more than 45mph because the greens are so exposed.

Speaking of NSW - if you want to pick the best holes in Sydney you have to have 5,6,13,14,15 and 16 at La Perouse and 10,11,14,16 and 17 at The Lakes.

[Mark_F]

Why is 16 at Commonwealth better than 11?

[Tom Huckaby]

Michael:

I don't doubt that each hole you listed is a great golf hole.

But are these intended to be the greatest?  The ONLY holes to make the list?  If so, well... you've covered a huge geographical area from Stone Eagle up to Valley Club, and thus there are a lot of other potential nominations.  I'm guessing you didn't intend this to be anything other than a start, based on courses you either know well or have recently played - true?

Curious also why you'd pick 16 at Rustic - great hole yes, but more commonly cited as great are either 11, 12, 13, 3... I think.... it's been awhile since I've been there.

Note we had a pretty lengthy thread awhile ago discussing the Bay Area (sans Monterey) in this context.  Lots of submissions, a little agreement, a lot of disagreement.  

[Gene Greco]

  Michael:

A list of best holes in "my area" would take up too much of Ran's bandwidth to list if the area in question includes a comparable geographic area to your example.

In "my town" the list would encompass the best holes at:

1. Southampton Golf Club (Seth Raynor 1925)
2. Sebonack
3. National Golf Links of America
4. Shinnecock Hills

......another lengthy list.  

[Glenn Spencer]

Cincinnati- I saw Jesse Jones say that #5 at Stonelick Hills is all-world. I agree with him. Very good hole.

Any hole at Camargo except for a couple.

Coldstream is solid 1-18, nothing really sticking out to me. I guess #11 and #13 could  be the best out there.

Traditions has a beautiful par 4. #14, not many options, but the green and greensite are fabulous.

6 and 11 at Maketewah are pretty good. 13 is as well.

The first hole at Kenwood is a pretty good one, but 18 is a fantastic par 4 in my book. Has special meaning to me though.

#3, par 5 at Elks Run is a good, exciting hole. Love playing that one. Made everything from 3-8 or 9 there.

#17 at Fairfield. Many may not agree, but I love this hole.

#17 and #18 at Heritage Club are certainly demanding holes.

There are probably many more, but those come to mind initially.

[Jeff Doerr]

Thanks for the pictures Ryan! For those who have not been to a course or an area, a picture - as they say - is worth a thousand words!

[JESII]

Is this a list worth compiling along the lines of "Best first hole in Philadelphia, best second hole etc..."?

Just thinking of Gene's "town" made me think it might make for better conversations...err...arguments...

[rjsimper]

Just off the top of my head of courses that were either exceptionally memorable or that I've played often

10 at Bel Air
10 at Riviera
13 at Palos Verdes CC
13 at Rustic Canyon
14 at Rustic Canyon (from the back tee)
4 at Riviera
18 at Riviera
11 at Los Verdes
17 at La Purisima

[David Ownby]

These are my favorites in Knoxville TN:

2,6,7,12,13 and 14 at Holston Hills (I resisted the temptation to list every hole at my home course).
3,5 and 16 at Egwani Farms
2,13 and 16 at Willow Creek
16 at River Islands
3 at one other (can't remember which) at Fox Den
A few good holes at Cherokee CC (haven't played there much)

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

Why is 16 bette than 11?

11 is a very good hole but I would give the edge to 16 because the dogelg is guarded by a ground hazard on a diagonal line giving everybody an option of which part of the hazard they carry -or how far to the right they fly away from the water.
There are acres of fairway right but every yard futher right you go the second becomes a yard harder.
It's also a great green - perfectly shaped to reflect the strategy of the tee shot.

11 is now a short shot to the corner of the dogleg (no fault of the hole but technology) and if you want to hit driver you are going across tall trees.There is a double hazard on the corner - bunkers behind trees -  and the green sets to reward a shot to the outside of the dogleg as opposed to the inside - where the hazards are.
The hole also turns right while the slope of the ground tips from right to left - as opposed to 16 were the slope of the ground from right to left perfectly matches the turn of the hole.
If the 11th tee moved back a little it would be a better hole for good players - they could hit the same shot as the members do from the current tees.
Of course,the original hole was straight but the club were forced to change it when they had to move 10 because of the boundary.

[Mark_F]

...as opposed to 16 were the slope of the ground from right to left perfectly matches the turn of the hole.

Mike,

Thanks for that.

However, isn't the fact that on 16 the fairways sloping the same way as the hole turns somewhat of a weakness?

After all, if you don't want to go near the water, you could aim toward the middle, left/middle, hit a bit of a draw and let the contour bring the ball back into position, all the while without challenging the principal hazard.

With eleven, I quite like holes where the fairway slopes opposite to that of the turn - maybe your masterplan will make the green receptive to a shot from the inside, then you would have to hit a great fade to hold the correct line on the fairway, at the risk of fading/pushing it into the bunker?

[Tim Gavrich]

I'll attempt to restrict my response to Hartford (CT) County.

- Any number of holes at Wintonbury Hills are worthy of special mention, but my three favorites are 5, 12, and 17
- Hartford GC, holes 8 and 16
- Wampanoag GC, hole 18
- Hop Meadow CC (yes, I'm a Homer), holes 9 and 18
- Tower Ridge CC, holes 5 and 6 (nice views)
- Gillette Ridge GC (believe it or not), hole 13 (but trust me, it's the only one, a cool driveable par 4)
- Canton Golf Course (NLE ), holes 6 and 9
There are probably some at CC of Farmington and Tumble Brook, and probably more at Hartford, and other area courses.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

The fairway turning the same way as a dogleg?
I don't think its a weakness - maybe you could argue its not a strength - but not a weakness.
It's a very good shot to hit a draw to the middle and use the slope to get into the right place.
If you don't want to carry the water that is the exact shot the hole is asking for.
The reality is most people don't challenge the principle hazard - they just bail miles right - which is why I give credit to those who can hit the shot you are talking about.

The master plan makes no suggestion of changing the 11th green - its too good a green to consider touching it.

[Chris Kane]

Mark, the fairway on 16 is almost flat - a straight shot will bounce straight.  To "aim toward the middle, left/middle, hit a bit of a draw and let the contour bring the ball back into position, all the while without challenging the principal hazard" is not going to happen.

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

I have to agree with you.  How can you consider a list of best golf holes within, say a 20-mile radius of Philadelphia?  That would be so difficult.  Courses include:

Pine Valley
Merion East
Merion West
Huntingdon Valley
Rolling Green
Aronimink
Manufacturers
Philadelphia Country
Gulph Mills
Philadelphia Cricket
Whitemarsh Valley
Tavistock
White Manor
LuLu

[Mark_F]

Chris,

As I have only played Commonwealth twice, and are a very,very,very poor player, I clearly wouldn't have a clue anyway.

I was merely responding to Mike's words above that "as opposed to 16, were (sic) the slope of the ground from right to left perfectly matches the turn of the hole." Or perhaps I am merely misunderstanding them.

I know it's been a while since you played Commonwealth, but... what does it(the 16th fairway) do?  It would be even better with that sort of slope - if it doesn't exist now.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark,

The drive on 16 will only really kick left when it reaches the outside of the dogleg, at which point your second shot is already under pressure because of the greenside bunker placement. The area within 10-20m of the lake is basically flat and a ball landing there will kick forward, not left.

The fairway contours are perfect the way they are.

Shane.

[Jon Spaulding]

MR....how about 17 at LA North?  

Would have a hard time posting anything in my town with a straight face. I know Stamm would nominate 1-18 at Shorecliffs, and Simper might select #3 at Monarch

[David Stamm]

MR....how about 17 at LA North?  

Would have a hard time posting anything in my town with a straight face. I know Stamm would nominate 1-18 at Shorecliffs, and Simper might select #3 at Monarch

I wouldn't let Shorecliffs steal all the spotlight, I'd throw in a few holes from San Juan Hills for your sake.

[Jon Spaulding]

I was going to put you down for the outward at Shorecliffs and the inward at SJ....

[David Stamm]

Ugh!!


Michael, since my experience with great holes in So Cal is limited, I can't really bring anything to the conversation, however, I'll name a few that I've enjoyed.



2, 12 and 16 at Rancho Santa Fe
Just about all of Rustic Canyon with 3, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 18 as particluar favs.
9, 10, 13, 15 and 18 at Pauma Valley
13, 14 and 18 at Barona (and I probably could name more)
7 and the closing three at San Clemente

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