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Andrew Cunningham

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Harmony Club
« on: March 17, 2007, 10:53:51 AM »
Has anyone played this new course north of Denver?  I believe it is a Engh design but can't find much information (or pictures) on it.

Thanks,


Andrew

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2007, 11:26:47 AM »
This private high end real estate development course is scheduled to open this year according to Engh's website:

www.enghgolf.com

Here's an article:

http://welcome.colostate.edu/index.asp?url=programs_engh
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 04:04:00 PM »
That was a good name for a course, I'm not surprised someone stole it from the project we were supposed to build down in Georgia.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 04:43:44 PM »
That was a good name for a course, I'm not surprised someone stole it from the project we were supposed to build down in Georgia.

I thought someone was bringing that project up again. Oh well....either they had no idea or no shame.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 07:22:09 PM »
In anticipation of a forthcoming question:

The Harmony Club (Lake Oconee, GA) property has been sold to new landowners.  It's possible they will develop the golf course as designed but not for another 3-4 years at the earliest.  That's all I am supposed to say about it for now.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 07:22:29 PM by Tom_Doak »

Peter Zarlengo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 08:09:59 PM »
For that matter, does anyone know anything about Engh's 4 Mile Ranch in Canon City? Its a really pretty part of the state.

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 08:40:26 PM »
In music publishing, the title has no copyright. The song itself does. So it is quite acceptable to write your own 'She Loves You' should you wish, but the tune had better be yours.

Andy Troeger

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 11:21:57 PM »
Just wanted to bump to see if anyone had more information. I looked through the article and the website but did not see a lot of detail about this project. I thought I read Harmony was opening in April, but I'm not sure if that's accurate.

Looks like 4 Mile Ranch is scheduled to begin construction this year from looking at enghgolf.com

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 06:03:30 PM »
In music publishing, the title has no copyright. The song itself does. So it is quite acceptable to write your own 'She Loves You' should you wish, but the tune had better be yours.

Exactly...if you want to protect the name of a golf course to the exclusion of others, you must register a trademark in it, just like any other business, from fruits and vegetables to telecommunications to sports and everything in between.

Nice to see another music industry guy on the site.  Boy is music publishing giving me a four alarm migraine right now Lloyd!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 06:05:04 PM by Jay Flemma »

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 06:44:10 PM »
That was a good name for a course, I'm not surprised someone stole it from the project we were supposed to build down in Georgia.

Tom, with great respect, might you want to reconsider that comment?  The golf course is located off Harmony Road, the main east west road in Fort Collins.  It's a well marked and famous street and a major exit off the main highway.  The owners are Colorado natives...lifelong, so I think they picked it as the name to reflect the location, like thousands of other golf courses.  I know for a fact Jim Engh had nothing to do with the choice of the name, that is certain.

Tom, now people on this site are running around thinking that there was some skulduggery when nothing could be further from the truth.  Nobody "stole" the name.  Its descriptive of the location.  I'll bet you an A&W root beer and hot dog they never even heard of the project in Georgia.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 07:24:53 PM by Jay Flemma »

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 07:41:44 PM »
That was a good name for a course, I'm not surprised someone stole it from the project we were supposed to build down in Georgia.

Tom, with great respect, might you want to reconsider that comment?  The golf course is located off Harmony Road...

Just like the one in Georgia
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 08:02:34 PM »
That was a good name for a course, I'm not surprised someone stole it from the project we were supposed to build down in Georgia.

Tom, with great respect, might you want to reconsider that comment?  The golf course is located off Harmony Road...

Just like the one in Georgia

Well if that's the case I would think the Georgia folks and Tom would be particularly understanding of the issue.  In that case, even registering a trademark would fail since its a descriptive use.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 08:37:25 PM »
Jay:

Well if they had a good local reason to name the course as they did, then I'm sorry for my wrong assumption.

Jim Engh did just open a course less than five miles from where our Harmony Club was supposed to be located, so I would be surprised if he'd never heard the name ... but that doesn't mean he's the one who suggested it of course.  I've only gotten to name one course out of the 20+ we've done.

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 08:47:00 PM »
Jay:

Well if they had a good local reason to name the course as they did, then I'm sorry for my wrong assumption.

Jim Engh did just open a course less than five miles from where our Harmony Club was supposed to be located, so I would be surprised if he'd never heard the name ... but that doesn't mean he's the one who suggested it of course.  I've only gotten to name one course out of the 20+ we've done.

I dont know if Jim ever heard the name and it is logical to assume that maybe he dat least heard of it since he was at Reynolds, so I'll make good on my promise of picking up our next A&Ws and hot dogs in Northern michigan.  But you hit the nail on the head when you said you only got to name one course out of the 20+.  I DO know that the course was named by the owners and Jim and team had no input in it.  I think they had the name picked out completely independently.

I'll take a wild guess...was High Pointe your one course that you got to name?

This underlines the need to carefuly research and take steps to protect the name of your course if you want to protect it to the exclusion of all others.  The best thing to do to protect a name of a golf course is 1) pick a name that is unique, and 2) search to make sure noone else has it and 3) make sure it's not descriptive of a geographical feature.  Then you can register the name with the PTO.  Ballyneal is a great example...while it means "place of neal" there's assumedly, no other place of neal or ballyneal in the country.  Boom!  Register the name and move the merch!  

In the case of names that are geographically descriptive, you have to establish what's called "secondary meaning" showing that the public equates the name with the golf course and not the location.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 08:52:00 PM by Jay Flemma »

John Kavanaugh

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 08:49:50 PM »
If I was Doak I would register the term "Doak Scale"...you might note it has found its way word for word onto many a web site, including our new rating series.  

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 08:54:17 PM »
I think he'd be better off registering "Confidential Guide to golf courses" but to do that, he'd have to make it a series.  You can only register a trademark in a book title if its more than one book.

As for "Doak Scale" - what would the goods and services be that he's marketing?  Perhaps a method of critiquing and evaluating golf courses I suppose, but John that's a good idea too.

"Renaissance golf design" is another valuable trademark.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 08:55:20 PM by Jay Flemma »

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 08:59:25 PM »
We just finished registering Fa Tass and the logo...it takes awile
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 08:59:42 PM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2007, 09:01:48 PM »
From the time you apply, they take 5-6 months just to get to the file...then there is the process to determine if the PTO will allow it.  At best, it takes a year, but I've had some TMs take three.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2007, 09:05:04 PM »
Jay,
It took almost 2 years and we had to go back and define meaning for them etc...pain the butt
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jay Flemma

Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 09:07:04 PM »
Jay,
It took almost 2 years and we had to go back and define meaning for them etc...pain the butt

Tell me about it!  I deal with them EVERY DAY.

Does fa Tass mean anything in a foreign language or something?

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2007, 09:53:20 PM »
The best thing to do to protect a name of a golf course is 1) pick a name that is unique

Unfortunately, this is what ends up giving us names like Patagonia Trace at Nebbish Ridge, or the like.

As to Fa Tass, does the logo look anything like this:

"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2007, 10:04:48 PM »
Jay,
It took almost 2 years and we had to go back and define meaning for them etc...pain the butt

Tell me about it!  I deal with them EVERY DAY.

Does fa Tass mean anything in a foreign language or something?
Fa Tass Sporting Apparel is a clothing line we have begun for large guys....it is French for Fat Ass....We just have 2 items for now plus hats...the golf shirt starts with XL and goes to 5XL and is extra long.  We try to address fat guy problems such as chaffing or what is called caddy ass....so we have some underwear made (much like Under armor) where it is dyed a light brown and comes in one color,Fudge.  It can be worn for days without washing....it is not stain resistant bt it hides them well....we are currently working with gold bond medicated powder to private label  "FaTass Nut Powder" to help with the underwear.....
Will also have a Queso dip and BarBQ sauce before Christmas....
Website will be up by June 1.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2007, 10:07:37 PM »
We always registered our tradenames and trademarks when I was in business, also all our designs were copyrighted, got expensive, but worth it.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2007, 10:13:02 PM »
I just got an IM thinking we were kidding re FaTass...I am serious....have had good response so far...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Harmony Club
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2007, 10:15:12 PM »
Tom D.,

I have to ask: which course of your own design did you name?
jeffmingay.com

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