ROOTS?

[TEPaul]

It seems like the more I learn or try to learn the more I realize how much I don't know---certainly about agronomy!

I've sure never pretended to know much about the technicalities of agronomy but yesterday my super really suprised me by saying that into the hot summer months roots tend to sort of crap out or do something technical biologically or whatever and basically get a lot shorter. I think he also said this process is what creates thatch.

I thought the whole deal was to get roots as deep as possible and that this was the key to firm and fast and healthy grass and turf. I did not know that roots typically shrink in depth in the hot summer months or whatever and can get long and deep or whatever during the other times and conditions.

Did I totally misunderstand him or is this common?

Supers out there, I think I need another Agronomy 101 lesson on this particular subject and exactly why it happens, if in fact, it almost always does. I thought maintaining deep roots was what made drier agronomy and firm and fast possible, particularly in the hot summer weather. If roots typically get shorter during those times how can we maintain drier conditions on the surface?

[JESII]

Call Scott Anderson and ask him if his roots "shrink up" in the hot days of summer...let me know what he says.

[Craig Sweet]

I'd be very surprised if Scott Andersons roots didn't shorten in the hot summer months...

[JESII]

I would be surprised if Scott would use the terms "crap out" or "basically get alot shorter", but I'm no pro...would you?

[Geoffrey Childs]

TEP

Let the supers correct me but this is what I remember from botany classes many decades ago.

When stressed, a plant will grow extra roots that probe and search for moisture and probably go deeper.  Energy utilization and cell growth is utilized for this purpose at the expense of leaf and reproductive (seed formation) organs (why waste energy if the organism is going to die).

With adequate moisture around the opposite is true. The plant thinks it is in a good environment so it grows shoots above ground and tries to reproduce.

My understanding is that thatch is formed from dead root structures that are rotting and decaying in part from excess moisture that allows bacterial and parasitic growth.

That is ALL I know or THINK I know about plants.

[Craig Sweet]

"Crap out" is such a good term..as is "it sh#t the bed"

[Craig Sweet]

This is a nice little over view of how grass grows.

http://www.ahnrit.vt.edu/portfolio/howgrassgrows/howgrassgrows.swf

[Anthony_Nysse]

I guess I'll be the first, tryong to keep it as simple as possible....

  A simple formula-The shorter the grass is cut, the shorter the roots will be to begin with. Because this is the case with greens and our desire to have fast firm conditions, handwatering is the key to only watering the areas that need water. Too much water will make the roots shrink because the water is so redily available in the top 2-3 inches. The best way to water, in my opinion, in deep and infrequent. Meaning, water a full overhead run, say 10 minutes, and hand water the following 2, 3 maybe even 4 days. Handwatering, when done right, is to just cool the surface, not water the plant-That's what the 10 minutes of overhead water is for. I'm not a fan of watering with overhead sprinklers unless watering a fertilizer or trying to ammend the soil. Because of this style of watering, the roots must go down into the soil to "search" for water, thus getting deeper, healthier roots.I have a hose in the back of my cart at all time. Handwatering is a vital key to sucess of a fast and firm green. Too much water only results in a lot more headaches for superintendents.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[TEPaul]

Why do plants and their roots and such have to be such biologically complicated little buggers?

My arms and legs don't shrink and get shorter in the hot summer months.

Or do they??

[TEPaul]

Craig:

Do your plants shit in their beds in the hot and dry summer months?

If so, have you ever considered putting diapers on them?

Something tells me the great billion dollar American agronomy industry probably has some pretty good plant diapers available somewhere.

[Troy Alderson]

I guess I'll be the first, tryong to keep it as simple as possible....

  A simple formula-The shorter the grass is cut, the shorter the roots will be to begin with. Because this is the case with greens and our desire to have fast firm conditions, handwatering is the key to only watering the areas that need water. Too much water will make the roots shrink because the water is so redily available in the top 2-3 inches. The best way to water, in my opinion, in deep and infrequent. Meaning, water a full overhead run, say 10 minutes, and hand water the following 2, 3 maybe even 4 days. Handwatering, when done right, is to just cool the surface, not water the plant-That's what the 10 minutes of overhead water is for. I'm not a fan of watering with overhead sprinklers unless watering a fertilizer or trying to ammend the soil. Because of this style of watering, the roots must go down into the soil to "search" for water, thus getting deeper, healthier roots.I have a hose in the back of my cart at all time. Handwatering is a vital key to sucess of a fast and firm green. Too much water only results in a lot more headaches for superintendents.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Please note that Tony is in South Carolina and his turf does not require too much water (?), just alot of fertilizer (?).  Up here in the PNW though, turf requires alot of water with the cool season grasses.  When Tony is putting down 10 minutes, we might put down 30 minutes during the hot summer months.  But that is not deep and infrequent in the PNW, 1/2 the weekly allotment over a two day spread is deep and infrequent.  Example, if the turf requires 1.5 inches of water per week then water 1/3 of the golf course per day at 3/4 inches.  The whole golf course is watered twice per week, deeply.

Now during the hotter months, roots will "shrink" and we must water the turf where the roots are.  If the roots are used to light and frequent watering every night, then they will stay shallow and during the hotter months will be in the top 2-3 inches as Tony stated.  It is during the hotter months that we must water more frequently than during the spring and fall.

Just posting maddly to reach the "full memeber" classification.

Troy

[Craig Sweet]

TomPaul...the thing about plants in general, they stay put, yet survive...it takes a complex system to to that.

[Steve Okula]

I have noticed as a GCS how no golfer has ever asked me, "What is the depth of the roots?"

Sure, deep roots are nice, but not necessary. I am concerned about the surface first and foremost. My job is to provide true, fast greens, within the parameters of climate and budget.

If I can do that with 6 inch roots, swell. If I can do it with 1/2 inch roots; then I am just as happy. I took over a course with a lot of Poa in the greens, and that species will never get deep roots, so I don't worry, as long as it's a puttable surface.

As my esteemed colleague Pete Galea has said before, roots don't "search" for anything. They take what water and nutrients are available to them, and under ideal conditions, both above and below the surface, they will grow.

I agree that hand watering is essential in the hot dry weather. But I DO do it to provide water to the plant and to the root zone, no question. By touching up the dry areas with a hand hose I can avoid overwatering the wet areas of the greens with the nightly sprinkler cycle.

I'm not convinced that deep, infrequent watering is beneficial in all situations. Light, nightly cycles have been keeping me in a job for years. To water deeply 1/3 of the golf course on alternating nights sounds absurd if you want to present a consistent playing surface. How is the golfer to know that the green he's hitting to is one that was soaked last night or left to dry out over the weekend?

[S. Huffstutler]

To echo what Steve has said, different conditions and different grasses dictate different root masses and different water regimes. My bermudagrass greens have very shallow roots and though I work hard to grow them as long as I can, the surface is what primarily concerns me. In order to keep my grass alive, I need to keep my rootzone moist and though I haven't given up on growing roots, I'm not going to sacrifice the putting surface in order to grow them.

Steve

[TEPaul]

SteveH:

Why would it sacrifice the putting surface to grow deeper roots? Do you mean trying to grow deeper roots would sacrifice the quality of the "playability" of the putting surface or the health of the turf----or both?

I'm also interested in learning more about the pros and cons of deeper roots in other areas of the course such as the fairways, particularly the approaches.

I think I started a thread once about dormancy but perhaps not. My question is, with deeper roots or less irrigation is it possible to extend the length of dormancy and if so isn't that a good thing for the general health and endurance of the plant?

[Michael_Stachowicz]

This is something that I struggle with; growing roots vs. providing consistent playing conditions.  There is no doubt that infrequent watering (I don't know about the deep part) encourage root growth.  There are studies to back up that as long as you let the crown of the plant dry out in between waterings, you are encouraging root growth.  In addition, this is a sort of pre stress conditioning that allows the plant to survive an assortment of weather conditions or pump failures.  I think root depth and quality are great indicators of plant health.  While maintaining for root depth, you get the side benefit for encouraging the bents and discouraging the poas.  Although I may be able to go 3 to 4 days without watering, every time I do water, the result is soft conditions for a day.

I know many well regarded superintendents that water everynight just enough so that the grass will wilt everyday at 1 pm.  Now that is consistent but certainly not overly firm and there are very few roots associated with such a program.  In addition, this certainly does not discourage poa.

[Troy Alderson]

Steve and Steve,

Please don't get me wrong, water where the roots are.  But, I have seen a golf course water deeply and infrequently and the greens were just as firm as any other on the golf course.  The idea is to get the soil profile and turf use to this type of irrigation cycling.

If the greens are dominated by poa annua and deep/infrequent watering is implemented, grass will be lost and overseeding will commence.  The idea is to grow drought resistent turf, which poa annua is not.  Once the soil and turf is used to the dp/inf watering, the golfers will love the firmness of the greens/tees/fairways.

There are several ways to irrigate a golf course and in the short term lightly works and in the long term deeply works.  Choose your weapon.  Water as deeply and infrequently as the quality of the golf course will handle.

Troy

[TEPaul]

"The idea is to get the soil profile and turf use to this type of irrigation cycling.

"If the greens are dominated by poa annua and deep/infrequent watering is implemented, grass will be lost and overseeding will commence.  The idea is to grow drought resistent turf, which poa annua is not.  Once the soil and turf is used to the dp/inf watering, the golfers will love the firmness of the greens/tees/fairways.

"There are several ways to irrigate a golf course and in the short term lightly works and in the long term deeply works.  Choose your weapon.  Water as deeply and infrequently as the quality of the golf course will handle."


Troy:

That seems like what I was looking for. I realize when you say 'once the soil and turf is used to dp/inf watering' that that might require a program for some time on some courses of more frequent aerating, tyning and sand filling some soil profiles to get better porosity or whatever through the profile so roots can more easily get down as well as the water.

In other words if a course can transition to more of the deep and infrequent program it seems like it will help green surface firmness over the long haul.

And I do understand about poa being a "wet" grass but obviously any course has to look at what they have for grass. We, for instance, went to A-4 about 3-4 years ago and it seems like A-4 loves dryness so it stands to reason to try to keep it that way for firmness as well as to make any poa encroahment die from thirst----at least in theory.

I guess I'm talking about a transition program for many courses.

[TEPaul]

" There are studies to back up that as long as you let the crown of the plant dry out in between waterings, you are encouraging root growth.  In addition, this is a sort of pre stress conditioning that allows the plant to survive an assortment of weather conditions or pump failures.  I think root depth and quality are great indicators of plant health. "

MichaelS:

Thanks for that post. Would you say that 'pre-stress conditioning' you mentioned that allows the plant to survive an assortment of weather conditions or pump failures is basically the same thing as increasing the length of "dormancy" as I mentioned above or asked about?

[Troy Alderson]

"The idea is to get the soil profile and turf use to this type of irrigation cycling.

"If the greens are dominated by poa annua and deep/infrequent watering is implemented, grass will be lost and overseeding will commence.  The idea is to grow drought resistent turf, which poa annua is not.  Once the soil and turf is used to the dp/inf watering, the golfers will love the firmness of the greens/tees/fairways.

"There are several ways to irrigate a golf course and in the short term lightly works and in the long term deeply works.  Choose your weapon.  Water as deeply and infrequently as the quality of the golf course will handle."


Troy:

That seems like what I was looking for. I realize when you say 'once the soil and turf is used to dp/inf watering' that that might require a program for some time on some courses of more frequent aerating, tyning and sand filling some soil profiles to get better porosity or whatever through the profile so roots can more easily get down as well as the water.

In other words if a course can transition to more of the deep and infrequent program it seems like it will help green surface firmness over the long haul.

And I do understand about poa being a "wet" grass but obviously any course has to look at what they have for grass. We, for instance, went to A-4 about 3-4 years ago and it seems like A-4 loves dryness so it stands to reason to try to keep it that way for firmness as well as to make any poa encroahment die from thirst----at least in theory.

I guess I'm talking about a transition program for many courses.

TomEPaul,

You got it.  I think we had this topic a few years back on GCA.com and we got the same differing ideas of dp/inf watering.  Transitioning to a dp/inf watering program will take years and seed money.  I remember seeing a soil profile on a green with partically zero thatch and organic matter and the green was 20-30 years old.  It all depends upon the maintenance program over the years.  The longer a superintendent is at one golf course the lower the cost of doing business.  By changing superintendents every few years, golf courses are shooting them selves in the foot because each superintendent has a different idea of how to maintain a golf course.  The golf course will determine much of the maintenance practices, but the superintendent is the one to implement the practices.  

The enemy is overwatering and overfertilizing, which creates too much thatch and organic matter, which impedes water percolation and air exchange.

All IMHO.

Troy

[Anthony_Nysse]

Troy,
  My fault-I should have clairified that I'm on warm season turf where in the summer, we don't have to water too much and we're able to water as I stated earlier. The courses in my area that I bentgrass greens do water 15-20 minutes overhead every 3 night and I've seen their greens with 8 inch bentgrass roots in mid summer-amazing, really. As Stave said, bermudagrass have a VERY shallow root system. We find that we're doing good if our tifeagle is at 2 inches....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Pat Brockwell]

With favorable conditions (weather, water, nutrients) the plant will utilize solar energy (photosynthesis) to grow tissue (leaves, roots, flowers, seeds) and store energy (usually in underground structures like roots, rhizomes, tubers etc).  During periods of stress (heat, drought, starvtion) the plant will lose tissue and consume stored reserves to survive.  Typically the spring and fall are favorable for tissue generation and energy storage.  Usally summer stresses the plant, respiration consumes more energy in the heat of the day than is produced by photosynthesis in the early hours of the day, and the day's energy production minus consumption equals net loss, hence a reduction of root mass and depth during the summer season, increases in root mass and depth are possible in the spring and fall.  Practical application of this knowledge means that I might want to place some (small) stress on the plant during the most favorable conditions to stimulate growth of survival  qualities (deep roots, thrifty tops) and during periods of environmental stress I want to do what I can to keep the gain/loss equation from depleting the plant. Quiz on Friday.

[TEPaul]

"The courses in my area that I bentgrass greens do water 15-20 minutes overhead every 3 night and I've seen their greens with 8 inch bentgrass roots in mid summer-amazing, really. As Stave said, bermudagrass have a VERY shallow root system. We find that we're doing good if our tifeagle is at 2 inches...."

Anthony:

Are you saying, in essence or in effect, that Bermudagrass is of the "little dick" type in the overall society of golf course grass? If so I guess that explains why it's all talk and no action and also why the South both lost the war and didn't get grass greens until after women got the right to vote sometime in the 1920s.

Would you agree with that?  

[TEPaul]

Wayne Morrison:

Just look at Pat Brockwell's post #21.

What did I tell you earlier about why roots shrink in the summer heat? Did he just confirm what I said, or what? How smart am I anyway? The only difference is I think I said the plant basically ate itself in those hot stress times which doesn't appear to be exactly the technical case. It looks more like it sweats a portion of its arms and legs off in the heat of the summer.

No, seriously Pat, thanks for that post---it really does help in understanding what specifically goes on with root length through the season.

[Joe Hancock]

I've apparently forgot many things about bermudagrass. I remember digging out irrigation leaks, etc., and the bermudagrass roots were more than 3 feet down....in a fairway...or am I dreaming? I think my 328 bermudagrass roots were nearly a foot...are the new, improved varieties that much shorter as far as root depth? Or, are these new grasses just showing the effects of modern maintenance regimes?

Joe

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