[Brian Cenci]

Just returned from a golf trip for a week with fellow GCA'r Dave Neveux on our third annual trip to the North Carolina area every March for spring break.  Anyways, we played the following courses and I've inserted some comments on each:

TRIP RANKS:
#1 - Forest Creek (North)
#2 - Holston Hills
#3 - Pinehurst No. 8
#4 - Pinehurst No. 2
#5 - Forest Creek (South)
#6 - Tanglewood Park (Championship)
#7 - Pinehurst No. 4
#8 - Pinehurst No. 7
#9 - Bryan Park (Championship)
#10 - Pinehurst No. 3
#11 - Southern Pines

*Forest Creek - North (Pinehurst, NC) = now I will preface my comments in that I only played the back 9 of the course, however I did drive the front 9 and saw the holes (were aerating the front the day we played it).  What a terrific course.  Definetly had that World Woods-Pine Barrons feel to it but a bit more natural looking.  It had a little bit more "rough" look to it then the south course.  A great stretch of holes along the water (a par 4, par 3 then par 4) on the back (not sure the numbers).  Overall a terrific course, I liked it better then Victoria National, Pinehurst No. 8 and World Woods (all other Fazio's I've played)

*Holston Hills C.C. (Knoxville, TN) = Great course.  The pro informed us the bunkers had been redone (Doak I believe) and I absolutely loved the work.  We played it in a downpore and as the pro told us, were "freakin' nuts" to be out there.  But we drove through the night and weren't taking no for an answer.  Some really unique holes for a Ross.  The 2nd hole as a cape hole is great.  Really liked the course.  I think it's even a little better then Oakland Hills, Pine Needles and Pinehurst No. 2 (other top Ross courses I've played).

*Pinehurst No. 8 (Pinehurst, NC) = again, I really enjoyed my round at this course.  I was plesintly suprised as most people had told me that No. 4 and No. 7 were their favorites (Oother than No. 2).  I really enjoyed the last two holes what a great closing hole and a great 17th.  I'm not the biggest Fazio guy but this was a great course, very impressed.

*Pinehurst No. 2 (Pinehurst, NC) = not much more that I could say.  Great history, very good course and layout with a nice mix of holes.  From the pro tees it's really not that hard from tee to green.  But obviously the greens make this course.  In my opinion, for $350 plus caddy to play...it's way overpriced.  But, they're seeling a brand name as much as anything and it's one of those courses you need to play at least once.  I liked Pine Needles better.

*Forest Creek - South (Pinehurst, NC) = another solid course.  Liked the north side better.  I liked this whole place because it didn't feel like a private club on the course, yet was very much so.  Some of the better green complexes I've seen in North Carolina.  I was very impressed with the overall topography and slope on the greens.  Really presented a nice challenge.  Overall a good course.

*Tanglewood Park - Championship (Clemmons, NC) = My third year in a row playing here.  One of my favorite traditional style courses and my favorite RTJ.  I just love this course and will put it up against any traditional style courses. I know most here aren't big on RTJ courses but from the tips, this course is a test and 17 and 18 are just a trerrifc end to a great course.

*Pinehurst No. 4 (Pinehurst, NC) = Probably the course I was most dissapointed in.  There was a par 5 I liked with about 50 bunkers but other then that nothing really impressed me.  The greens weren't rolling as good as I expected and after hearing what a good course this was I was a little bummed.  But, still a solid course.

*Pinehurst No. 7 (Pinehurst, NC) = Not all too excited about the course.  The back nine had a few nice holes.  Overall, it's not worth the $150 cost to play.

*Bryan Park - Championship (Greensboro, NC) = I wasn't very impressed with this course other then a stretch of 3 holes on the back (I think #13 (par 4), #14 (par 3) and #15 (par 5).  These three holes made up for what I thought was a pretty unexciting course.  But, #13 is a great par 4...what a test, especially when the wind was howling like when we played it.  Then #14 is a par 3 into a 30 mph wind at 235 yards. Great couple of holes.

*Pinehurst No. 3 (Pinehurst, NC) = I was very very impressed with this course.  For 5700 yards I can't believe the difficulty.  The greens were rolling pretty good when we played as well which made for a good challenge.  Really a terrific course, especially for $30.

*Southern Pines (Pinehurst, NC) = Played it last year but for $30 a great round.  They need a little work on getting some grass on the fairways but I love this course.  Will always make time for a round when I come down.

[Greg Holland]

Brian,

Could you explain your views on Bryan Park in a little more detail?  The general public usually give it rave reviews, and for a reasonably priced, public course, it does have a lot to offer.  I too think it has some drawbacks, but one rarely hears negative comments about it, so I'd love to hear them in more detail.  

[PCCraig]

It sure is a small world Brian!

I was at Forest Creek the same day last week that you played the North Course. Too bad you missed out on the front nine, I think holes 5-9 are the best stretch on the course. However I think the north's 12th is the best hole at FC.

Overall sounds like you had a great trip.

Pat

[Mike Hendren]

Brian,

There is a rumor going around that the Elks are going to sell Southern Pines or at least hire a management company.  Was mention made of this during your visit?

I don't want to put Ran on the spot, so is anyone else familiar with the situation?

Mike

[John Shimp]

Never seen #2 ranked below #8.  Also never heard the shots into the greens there described as not that hard?  I agree that its not a penal driving course given the lack of water hazards, relatively benign fairway bunkers, little ob.  Number 8 is a solid course but nothing real unique to me.  #2 is really unique with the greens and lack of the signature hole element so important to newer visually stunning designs.  #2 does grow on you the more you play it also.

[Brian Cenci]

Brian,

Could you explain your views on Bryan Park in a little more detail?  The general public usually give it rave reviews, and for a reasonably priced, public course, it does have a lot to offer.  I too think it has some drawbacks, but one rarely hears negative comments about it, so I'd love to hear them in more detail.  

I just thought Bryan Park was s typical Rees course.  I actually like the Duke G.C. better (which I know he redid and I played it last year).  Overall Bryan Park is a good course and a great value, but I always see it ranked fairly high in the state, and I just don't see that.  As I mentioned, there's a nice stretch of holes on the back and I like #2 on the front, but overall it's nothing special IMO.

[Greg Holland]

Thanks Brian and fair enough.  While it is a good course, I agree that Bryan Park Champions Course is often over-rated.  The routing makes walking very difficult (some green to tee walks are 100s of yards long, often uphill, and a big reason more tournaments aren't played there), and there is LOTs of containment mounding.  The holes you noted (13-15) -- are good (and I would include 12), but several rely on forced carries over water.  

I like 1, 4 (pretty par 3) and 8 on the front (2 is my least favorite).  On the back, 10 is a good hole, and 12-15 are good.

That said, it is a top notch public facility, and most people I talk to think it is one of the best courses around.  

The Players Course (George Cobb, a few tweaks by Rees) is easier to walk, and not bad.  There are a lot of sharp dog leg holes on it that get somewhat monotonous.  I think holes 3, 4, 11, 12, 17 and 18 are good ones (though most of the one shotters (3, 11 and 17) are somewhat repetitive).

As to other courses you mentioned, I love Pine Needles and I can't wait to see Forest Creek, which hopefully will happen this spring.

[Brian Cenci]

Brian,

There is a rumor going around that the Elks are going to sell Southern Pines or at least hire a management company.  Was mention made of this during your visit?

I don't want to put Ran on the spot, so is anyone else familiar with the situation?

Mike

Mike,
     I didn't hear of anything when I was there, however they were workinng on the clubhouse and had the golf shop set up in a trailer.  If they put a little bit of money into that course it could be one of the best around, IMO.

-Brian

[Brian Cenci]

Never seen #2 ranked below #8.  Also never heard the shots into the greens there described as not that hard?  I agree that its not a penal driving course given the lack of water hazards, relatively benign fairway bunkers, little ob.  Number 8 is a solid course but nothing real unique to me.  #2 is really unique with the greens and lack of the signature hole element so important to newer visually stunning designs.  #2 does grow on you the more you play it also.

John,
     I was impressed with No. 8, as well as No. 2....just personal bias and really they're a coiin flip to me.  The greens to me at No. 2 weren't that hard if you just went for the middle of them all the time.  As I said, #17 and #18 I really liked on No. 2 also.  I just didn't get that feeling on No. 2 that I've got at other Major Championship venues I've played like Whistling Straits, Oakland Hills, Olympia Fields, Hazeltine, etc. (that feeling that your playing somewhere that is truly special and has a lot more behind it then just the "course", like history, etc.)

-Brian

[Tim Gavrich]

Interesting that you like #8 more than #2, but to each his own.  I played both this past August (North-South Junior), and would call #2 one of my three all-time favorite golf courses.  Then again, I played it for a bargain of bargains (the entry fee for the tournament was less than $200, and I ended up playing #2, #5, and #8).  For a nice setting in the pine forest, I personally thought #8 was lacking a "wow-factor."  My favorite holes are the ones where Fazio used sandy waste areas; I wish he'd done that on more of the holes.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Brian - here's a good metric on where you rank your courses.  There isn't a list anywhere that would rank Pinehurst #2 number three in the state of NC.  JC

[Brian Cenci]

Brian - here's a good metric on where you rank your courses.  There isn't a list anywhere that would rank Pinehurst #2 number three in the state of NC.  JC

Jonathan,
   There is a list....my list.  People are entitled to their own opinions.  I've played enough top quality courses (public and private) all over the U.S. to be able to draw my own logical judgements and opinions on certain courses.  I happen to like Pine Needles and Forest Creek better than both No. 2 and know several people who share my same opinion.  I don't really care what some publication ranks a course, it's all relative to what you think.  Also, If I had a set criteria like most raters, then maybe No. 2 would rank higher.  But, for my experience on the course and all other factors I rank it where I do.

-Brian

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