[Patrick_Mucci]

Should the trees in the DZ be removed ?

Don't they double up the problems for the golfer who finds one of the two rightside fairway bunkers ?

With water left and OB right, are they excessive in producing a demanding tee shot ?

And, should a golfer who hits the middle of the fairway, with water left and OB right, be penalized ?

[Walt_Cutshall]

The hole seems to work pretty well to me.

[archie_struthers]

I think its easy

but good

[Rick Shefchik]

I've never understood the purpose of the trees, other than aesthetics. They don't seem to come into play very often, but when they do it seems like an utterly random punishment for a tee ball that avoided both the ocean and the white stakes.

If the trees weren't there, would anyone advocate planting them, or putting a pot bunker there?

[Joel_Stewart]

I believe they (not these particular 2) have always been there and I personally have tangled with the far one.  The bunkers are not original, placed there by Arnold Palmer a few years ago.  

[paul cowley]

Patrick....you ought to get in your car and head south for therapy.

Pruned maybe [the originals were smallish pines], but not removed.

[peter_p]

Keep 'em. They bring the ocean more into play for the tee shot. Create more challenging angles for the second shot.  
  Take them out and players will bail out even more.  May provide some visual protection from the lodge rooms OB right. Played there once, in '69, and was stymied by them and had to chip out. Disappointed, but only annoyed by my bad shot.
  Bunkers should not be in play for competent golfers in most conditions. If you get in them it is hard to par, with or without the trees.

[Mark_Fine]

I happen to like these as there are still options around them.  They make the golfer think and they also show that center line trouble can be a part of great golf holes.  There are, however, other new trees on the course that I don't like.  In particular the field goal trees on #2  

[JR Potts]

Should the trees in the DZ be removed ?

Don't they double up the problems for the golfer who finds one of the two rightside fairway bunkers ?

With water left and OB right, are they excessive in producing a demanding tee shot ?

And, should a golfer who hits the middle of the fairway, with water left and OB right, be penalized ?

We agree on something!

[Tom_Doak]

I haven't played Pebble for some time, so I can't speak to how the "replacement" trees in the fairway come into play today.  But, I sort of like them being there.  

Without them, you can do what the pros always do when confronted with a diagonal hazard ... find your safe line, and hedge even safer than that, to be sure you don't drive it into the ocean.  But with the trees, if you take that tack, you might wind up screwed.  They force you to either take a bold line or to wimp out.

[JR Potts]

I haven't played Pebble for some time, so I can't speak to how the "replacement" trees in the fairway come into play today.  But, I sort of like them being there.  

Without them, you can do what the pros always do when confronted with a diagonal hazard ... find your safe line, and hedge even safer than that, to be sure you don't drive it into the ocean.  But with the trees, if you take that tack, you might wind up screwed.  They force you to either take a bold line or to wimp out.

Tom: what do you think of the tree on 18 at Butler?

[Sean Leary]

I played Pebble last month and hit my drive exactly where Phil did today, and was absolutely baked.  Choices were to aim over the water and cut it or aim OB and hook hit.  I aimed OB and didn't hook it.

It makes the safe rout have a penalty..

[ChipRoyce]

Agree with Sean;
Water Hazard on the left and Rough / OB on the right should be plenty of hazards on this hole before adding in some (expensive) trees that obscure the line of play.

[Nick_Christopher]

Answers:

1) The trees should be removed.

2) Not sure what you mean by "double up".  Please be more specific.

3) No

4) The golfer should avoid the tress if they are present regardless of how you want to characterize a shot that must contend with them.

The trees should be replaced with bunker system that fits the hole.  It is a beautiful hole, but flawed and needs someone with a strong vision to clean it up.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I haven't played Pebble for some time, so I can't speak to how the "replacement" trees in the fairway come into play today.  But, I sort of like them being there.  

Without them, you can do what the pros always do when confronted with a diagonal hazard ... find your safe line, and hedge even safer than that, to be sure you don't drive it into the ocean.  But with the trees, if you take that tack, you might wind up screwed.  They force you to either take a bold line or to wimp out.

Tom Doak,

Have you ever considered putting trees in the middle of a fairway ?  Especially a diagonal fairway.

Nick,

By "double up" I mean that being in a fairway bunker (hazard) you shouldn't face another feature (hazard) that makes it impossible to advance the ball to the desired target..

If you're in a fairway bunker in or bordering a fairway, you shouldn't be faced with an extraction that is impeded by a wall of trees, especially with OB and a water hazard flanking those trees.

[Adam Clayman]

Patrick, Mr. Doak placed center trees on the penultimate hole in Lubbock. It plays somewhat like a diagonal, (if you drive it in the right spot   ) just not the same as PB.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

Is there O.B. on one side of that hole and a water hazard on the other ?

Or, O.B. or a water hazard on one side of the hole.

It's one thing to place a tree in a fairway with nothing else around, it's quite another to narrow a fairway with trees when there's water and O.B. on each side.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

The trees definitely play into things for the better player; it works out just as Ton Doak described.

I would agree though that it does make a double-dip situation for the handicap player; just remember absent crazy wind he's the only one that would ever find those right bunkers as they are way way way to the right of the better player's line.  So that would seem unfair to the handicap player.  BUT... the OB is out of his range also - that is, he can't hit it far enough on the tee shot to reach it.  So those trees are his version of what the OB is for the better player.

Taking all of this into consideration, I think they work and I'd vote to perhaps prune them (as Paul Cowley says) but definitely leave them in.

[Adam Clayman]

Patrick, There is water left of the trees in Lubbock. The tee shot is nondictational but the prefered line is towards the left side nearer the tress. Actually I can only assume that since I have only had to deal with them on my second shot after playing to the far right off the tee.

The reality on the 18th hole @ PB is it's inellastcity to be made longer. The trees are now barely a nusance for even average good players. A drive of 260 will clear them easily. Also, with the slight angle of the fairway, the width is ample, left of the trees. Very few players find the exact yardage to be stymied by them, and when one does, they often have a play to lay-up. As for how the trees affected someone in the'old" bunkers... They are problematic but not to the extent of a stymie. As an aside, I once asked someone who was in there, if they minded having to also deal with the tree limbs. There answer was an emphatic "no". They deserved their fate for having found the bunkers due to a poor drive.

 The hole is still very much playable from behind the trees, or in the bunker behind the trees.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The trees definitely play into things for the better player; it works out just as Ton Doak described.

I would agree though that it does make a double-dip situation for the handicap player; just remember absent crazy wind he's the only one that would ever find those right bunkers as they are way way way to the right of the better player's line.  

So that would seem unfair to the handicap player.  BUT... the OB is out of his range also - that is, he can't hit it far enough on the tee shot to reach it.  So those trees are his version of what the OB is for the better player.

Taking all of this into consideration, I think they work and I'd vote to perhaps prune them (as Paul Cowley says) but definitely leave them in.

Tom Huckaby, et. al.,

Pebble Beach is a golf course that gets very, very heavy play, year round.

Why does everyone examine architectural issues in the sole context of a 4 day PGA Tour Tournament.

150 or so PGA Tour Pros played last week

10,000, 20,000 or 30,000 or more people will play there this year, shouldn't we examine features from their perspective, or their combined perspectives and not solely from the perspective of 150 PGA Tour Pros ?

So, in that context, what do you think of the trees ?

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

If you will go back and read, you will note I did not at all examine in in the context of any tournament.  I described how it plays for the better player and the lesser-skilled.  I'm at a loss to see where I made anything close to a mention of professional players.

And my assessment stands.  I still think the trees work.

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Huckaby,

Do you understand what "et. al." means ?

[Tom Huckaby]

I do.

But if you mention one, he is included in the set.

So take my name out of that and we have no issues.

I would be interested in your comments on MY take, in any case.  I fully understand the massive amount of play the course gets.

TH

[JESII]

When I was there, the rough came in pretty close to the trees (maybe 5 - 7 yards of fairway right of trees. This meant the bunkers were 15 yards into the rough, approximately. Would you have a problem with any of this Pat, if the fairway went all the way to the bunkers? Maybe it does, and I am off base, like I said my only experience had the rough in pretty close to the trees.


Pat, what does "et. al." mean?

[Tom Huckaby]

Sully:   not sure if yours is a serious question, but this got me to wondering if Patrick really knows what it means....

Here's a good definition:

et al. n. abbreviation for the Latin phrase et alii meaning "and others." This is commonly used in shortening the name of a case, as in "Pat Murgatroyd v. Sally Sherman, et al."

His question to me has me wondering..... Seems in his world Sally Sherman isn't meant to be part of the case...  

 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()