[Peter Pallotta]

Has the internet/web-sites expanded your opportunities and horizons as much as I’d imagine it has?

With developers from around the world able to see images of your work, has this changed the concept/practice of the 'regional' architect (or of regionally-specific design)?

Or is the community of developers/potential developers small enough that word of mouth and networking (i.e. developers talking to each other in a given region, or you marketing your work to them, by region) are still important?

Thanks
Peter




 

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

I don't think anyone is going to attract any work in this business just by dint of having a good web site.  Reputation is what matters, not self-promotion.  And personal contacts help tremendously, which is one reason young architects struggle for years before their success pays off ... they just don't know enough people yet.

I don't know how a regional architect goes international; I suspect attending trade shows and showing interest in the region means more than a web site.  For myself, it was simply a case of having made previous contacts in Australia, and of having American clients who wanted to build courses in New Zealand and Scotland.

One result of the electronic age is that we do field far more inquiries about new projects than we used to, from all over the globe ... in the past month alone I've had inquiries about projects in India, China, Costa Rica, Panama and Sweden, and I doubt any of them would have bothered tracking me down by phone or by mail if that was still the prevailing standard.  But, if you are committed to not "mailing in" the design, the electronic age doesn't make it any easier to get a golf course built in India.

[Mike_Sweeney]

I don't think anyone is going to attract any work in this business just by dint of having a good web site.  Reputation is what matters, not self-promotion.  

Tom,

How about writing a book? I am pretty sure that you have mentioned that you used The Confidential Guide as a calling card with some of your initial prospects. I am sure that working for Pete Dye gave you a good reputation to some degree, but come on, The Confidential Guide which was pre-Internet was your website. It can be argued that this website is an extension of your early writings, except that now your reputation IS as an architect and not a writer.

Even you have to admit that putting Stonewall in your 31 Flavors had some Trumpian qualities now that you have built a number of courses that blow away Stonewall and would be deserving of 31 Flavor status.

I do respect how you positioned yourself as the industry outsider, but the jig is up and you are now clearly an industry insider.  

[Mike Nuzzo]

Peter,
I'd say the internet helps young architects get to new more people faster, but it still takes a very long time.

No inquiries quite as glorious as India for me, but I did have one from Pakistan ... it looked pretty cool from the air.

I'll guess that accessible aerial photography has probably made a bigger change.

Cheers

[Peter Pallotta]

Tom, Mike(s) - thanks.  It sounds like the situation in the line of work I freelanced in; but I'd assumed it was different somehow for architects.

There hasn't been much pick-up on this, but I think there's an interesting discussion in there someplace,e.g.:

How does the medium through which gca ideas/philosophies get transmitted affect the game, and how do individual designers play into this?

There was CB Macdonald, whose connections (and influence) were with Wall Street and not with city councils across the country. That MEANT something, I think, to how gca and the game itself developed.  

Then Tillinghast promoted himself and his design philosophies in books, and that meant something too.

Then, after WW II, the subject of gca seemed to fall off the map, and very few were writing about it, and that seems to coincide with a black (or at least grey) period in design; though the popularity of the game grew enormously, as did RTJ's fame as the "Open Doctor".  

I'm not sure the impact/potential impact of the internet to broadcast more widely than ever the important CURRENT  trends/philosophies has yet been understood or harnessed; and I'm not sure that its impact will be any less significant than that of previous mediums.  

Peter  

[Mike_Young]

I think websites just help all save money on brochures.  The overall business is a relationship business and nothing can replace the time it takes to build those.  
I think if you research it you will see that many architects make a career out of one or two clients and do the majority of their work for those clients.....

[Guy Phelan]

I think websites just help all save money on brochures.  The overall business is a relationship business and nothing can replace the time it takes to build those.  
I think if you research it you will see that many architects make a career out of one or two clients and do the majority of their work for those clients.....

Mike,

I find it interesting that architects like Tillinghast used block ads in the newspapers to advertise their businesses, (granted, this was a long time ago) along with the relationships that he possessed. Is it not possible for an architect to obtain additional business from advertising?

Guy

[Tom_Doak]

If you think back, the reason for success of most past and present golf architects is really in their CONNECTIONS.

In Ross's day, tons of people with money came through Pinehurst in the winter to visit with him.

Dr. MacKenzie's career really took off when his consulting gig at the R & A provided contacts in Australia.  (And he started traveling overseas to capitalize on the contacts he had made with Robert Hunter and Perry Maxwell.)

Macdonald was chums with everyone on Wall Street, and passed all those contacts onto Seth Raynor who followed up with their extended families.

Robert Trent Jones was more successful at public marketing than most, but having the USGA connections and the New York connections and the Rockefellers as regular clients didn't hurt.

George and Tom Fazio were referred to everyone who visited Pine Valley for years, because of George's connection there; that's the secret to Tom's success.  Now he's camped out at Augusta every year.

Pete Dye had the success of the Tour (first at Harbour Town and then at Sawgrass) bringing him other clients who wanted to host tournaments.

And, while everyone thinks that the Tour pros are sought after designers because their names are good for marketing, the real truth is that they have also met tons of potential clients in lots of cities and countries in their days traveling the Tour.

Nobody's web site is going to offset that.  Yes, The Confidential Guide helped me get the public's attention, and impress some clients ... so did The Anatomy of a Golf Course ... but the real reason I get a lot of work now is because I've proven what I can do and because I know a lot of people.

[Eric_Terhorst]

Tom Doak,

Do I recall correctly reading in "Dream Golf" that Mr. Keiser was reluctant to hire you for the first course because, based on some of your written work, he thought your design might be too "unconventional" or "controversial"?

In that case, your books and magazine articles actually worked against you?

[Ian Andrew]

Eric,

Controversial or not, he knew who he was because of those opinions. I would say it worked for him.

[Brian Phillips]

Eric,

I think that some of the main reasons Tom is successful is that he has always been a genuine person, he says it as it is, he is honest, helpful and most of all, him and his team are pretty damn talented.

Don't forget he has been in the business a long time now and it is only recently that (the last 5 years) that he has hit the 'big' time.

Brian

[Peter Pallotta]

Gents,

thank you. I learn something every day:

it never occurred to me that the development of cga was at least as much about the history/network of personal relationships as it was about the history/network of ideas.  
 
It's a very different way of thinking about this subject, for me at least.

Peter

[TEPaul]

Good question. I guess an on-going book could be written about the various and super numerous reasons clients hire various golf course architects.

[wsmorrison]

Unlike many of his contemporaries, Flynn did not market himself in the same way.  Yes, in 1916 he took out advertising in American Golfer in March, September and October 1916 mentioning golf architecture, but the primary reason for the advertisements was to sell his patented golf standards with baskets rather than flags.  For the most part, Flynn would get work by virtue of his connections or success.  A lot of Flynn's work is geographically concentrated.  A club hired him to design or redesign and other clubs in the area followed.

Flynn's clients saw his work at destination resorts such as the Homestead (Cascades and Old Courses) and Boca Raton (North and South).  But his clients also included Robert Cassatt (president of the PA Railroad), John D. Rockefeller (Sr. and Jr.), Albert Lasker, Clarence Geist, Glenn Curtiss, Mrs. Dodge, etc.  Curtiss probably influenced Juan Trippe to push for Flynn to his friend Lucien Tyng for the Shinnecock job.  There are all kinds of connections that can be looked at as to how jobs were assigned.  It is fascinating as Tom Paul mentions.

Connections, as Tom Doak pointed out, meant a great deal to Flynn's success and the success of other architects then and now.  He was a likeable fellow and that must have helped a lot.

[TEPaul]

Peter:

I just thought of it but it should certainly be mentioned.

Today there are a few architects who don't really feel they need to market themselves for the simple reason they are not trying to take on unlimited projects or even a moderate amount of simultaneous projects.

Coore and Crenshaw, for instance, do not hesitate to tell anyone that they just don't do more than two courses at the same time or sometimes three at the very most.

That's the only way they want to work, apparently, and there may be times they get ten times more client requests than they can handle at any particular time.

[Peter Pallotta]

I guess just like in THE Renaissance, the artists/craftsmen working in golf course architecture need a Patron.

Of course, Michelangelo had the POPE feeding him work, among others; John D. Rockefeller I guess comes pretty close.  I wonder if more potential Patrons are out there today.

Peter
TE, thanks - just saw your post. How ideas-people-and personal choices (like C&C make) come together to create trends seems like a very fruitful discussion.

[TEPaul]

"How ideas-people-and personal choices (like C&C make) come together to create trends seems like a very fruitful discussion."

Peter:

That kind of thing brings up perhaps the most fundamental point and subject in all of golf course architecture which is of course----time spent on site. This is perhaps, or probably even undeniably why some of those so-called "amateur" architects in the old days who produced such remarkable courses---GCGC, Myopia, NGLA, Oakmont, Merion, Pine Valley were able to do what they did.

[Kalen Braley]

I would add that having connections, is really how the world works in general, regardless of the business you're in.

As someone who has worked in tech for the last 7 years, I have seen this happen time and time again where a big name contact brought the companies I've worked for some big business.

[Peter Pallotta]

Kalen: you're probably right. I tend to think of ideas/philosophies as being the driving force, and forget about the importance of connections (to the detriment of my own freelance career).

TE: The amateur architects involved in the courses you mentioned, were they part of an web of inter-connections, and did that include 'developers' as well?

Any parallels to that situation today (or is the 'amateur' ethos and practices a thing of the past, and practically impossible now)?

Peter

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