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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« on: February 03, 2007, 05:35:01 PM »
the new breed just hits it as far as they can and then wedges it from the rough.....ARE TREES OUR LAST DEFENSE????
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 05:40:50 PM »
Nawwww.....trees just block the wind.

Greens that are brown are the last defense.  :)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Michael Christensen

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 05:45:03 PM »
Tiger does this all the time in non-majors....look at his stats at doral the last 2 years...out of the rough all the time and making birdies!  Nothing new on the PGA Tour

Guy Phelan

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 05:45:10 PM »
All holes should grow the rough to an obscene length from 150 yards in to the green and from 175 yards in, almost obscene...let's see if they still hit drivers!!!

I do not believe this should be done around MOST of the green complexes.

Guy Phelan

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 05:45:59 PM »
Nawwww.....trees just block the wind.

Greens that are brown are the last defense.  :)

Joe

And then I also agree with Joe!

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 05:49:26 PM »
Whether we like it or not...trees stop this.....
and yes I agree Joe..brown greens...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Kyle Harris

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 06:00:05 PM »
Angles stop this, make them fight for the right angle.

Guy Phelan

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 06:13:09 PM »
Whether we like it or not...trees stop this.....
and yes I agree Joe..brown greens...


If there are trees, then there is sparse rough and they can still shape shots out and under most areas with trees. If there is ROUGH, then they are harmless.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 06:30:56 PM »
Guys -

We get these posts EVERY YEAR when the PGA Tour goes to Phoenix/Tucson!

Aside from the fact that the rough is down a bit this year due to cold weather (as told on the NBC telecast), PGA TOUR PLAYERS HAVE BEEN SHOOTING LOW SCORES IN ARIZONA SINCE THE DAYS OF JOHNNY MILLER!

GET OVER IT!!!

DT

Pete Garvey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 06:33:59 PM »
If the question is raised because one is surprised about a tour player shooting a low number with very few fairways hit in regulation, then one must realize the talent on the tour today.  Tour players are just that, tour players.  They do this for a living.  The winner shoots a number.  What it is to par is irrelevant.

Now, if this is a concern, then one must take a page from the US Open.  Narrow the landing areas, one “swath” of a 2” intermediate rough, a 6” rough and greens that are as hard as the landing strip at Kennedy.  Now, you can defend par!  Like it or not, the physical and mental conditioning of a tour player today is leap years ahead of the past.  Just as the commercial says, “these guys are good.”

The last factor of the equation brings us back to the USGA.  They have been asleep at the wheel.  Technology has gone too far making most of our great, classic courses obsolete not to mention many of the modern courses.  Oh how it sickens me to see a classic course destroyed in preparation for a major competition.  For example, Ross did not want 19 yard landing zones!

With this said, we are where we are.  This cannot be changed.  After all, the score is just a number.  Maybe the time has come to go back to the old system and eliminate Par from the language of golf and just play hole by hole!  It never seemed to bother Bobby.



David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 06:40:51 PM »
the new breed just hits it as far as they can and then wedges it from the rough.....ARE TREES OUR LAST DEFENSE????

Mike Young,

I think there are a couple of flaws in your example.

Firstly, Baddeley is the tour's best putter.  And Phoenix has perhaps the tour's flattest greens.  He had 20 putts in the first round!!  He is obviously white hot with the putter this week, which can cover his poor driving.

Secondly, Despite being the tour's best putter, he is one of the tour's worst drivers.  He finshes between 60-120 on the money list each year.  His bad driving obviously disadvantages him over the course of the season.

Thirdly, Why jump to the conlcusion that trees are the answer?   The course they are playing on this week (which doesn't rank in the top 10 courses in the Phoenix area) lacks deep bunkers, thick rough, firm greens, strategically designed greens, and length.  To single out the lack of trees at the expense of all the other design features the course lacks, doesn't seem quite right.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 06:42:21 PM »
Guys -

We get these posts EVERY YEAR when the PGA Tour goes to Phoenix/Tucson!

Aside from the fact that the rough is down a bit this year due to cold weather (as told on the NBC telecast), PGA TOUR PLAYERS HAVE BEEN SHOOTING LOW SCORES IN ARIZONA SINCE THE DAYS OF JOHNNY MILLER!

GET OVER IT!!!

DT
They would not shoot those numbers with trees....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Cirba

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 06:46:27 PM »
Yes Mike, trees would stop this if they were dense enough, close enough to the fairway, and particularly if they had low growth similar to pines.

However, I'd much prefer angry flocks of pterodactyls looming just outside the fairways lines, waiting to swoop up any balls that dare to cross their airspace.  It would certainly add some much needed element of risk.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 06:51:21 PM by MPCirba »

CHrisB

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 06:47:25 PM »
Trees didn't stop Baddeley at Harbour Town last year (his only PGA tour win)...

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 06:51:28 PM »
Trees didn't stop Baddeley at Harbour Town last year (his only PGA tour win)...
I would say He also hit three woods and irons from many of the tees....I know most guys do...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2007, 06:52:33 PM »
Yes Mike, trees would stop this if they were dense enough, close enough to the fairway, and particularly if they had low growth similar to pines.

However, I'd much prefer angry flocks of pterodactyls looming just outside the fairways lines, waiting to swoop up any balls that dare to cross their airspace.  It would certainly add some much needed element of risk.  ;)
thanks....whether we like them or not...they will stop it...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Cirba

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2007, 06:52:59 PM »
I would say He also hit three woods and irons from many of the tees....I know most guys do...

Mike

I know these guys are good, but when did you decide to deify H*im?   :o


* modified so that my seeming non-sequitur makes some sense referring to Mike's capitalization of "He" midsentence, usually reserved for the big guy upstairs.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 07:17:35 PM by MPCirba »

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2007, 07:32:57 PM »

I'd much prefer angry flocks of pterodactyls looming just outside the fairways lines, waiting to swoop up any balls that dare to cross their airspace.  

Now that would be interesting "architecture."

Mike_Cirba

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2007, 09:01:31 PM »

Now that would be interesting "architecture."

Eh, Ryan...I can dream, can't I?

 ;D

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2007, 11:52:20 PM »
It's a resort course.

Jim Nugent

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2007, 01:35:45 AM »
Baddeley didn't hit many fairways yesterday, but that is not true overall of the leaders in this tournament...

Of the top 10 (which actually are top 12 due to ties), 5 have hit over 70% of fairways, including 3 of the top 4.  8 have hit over 60%.  11 have hit over 50%.  Only Bubba Watson is under 50%.  Baddeley is at 54.6% overall for the tournament.  Which means he hit 18 fairways the 1st two rounds, or 64.28%.  54.6%, btw, is about what TW averaged for the year in 2005, and also I believe what he hit at Pinehurst at the 2005 U.S. Open.  (Woods went on to hit 75% of all greens at Pinehurst.)

Where all the leaders shine this week is on the greens.  All except one are averaging under 1.70 putts per GIR.  3 are averaging under 1.60.  To put that in perspective, the leader on tour last year averaged 1.712.  They aren't getting their approach shots especially close to the pins: these greens must be real easy to putt.

Last year the least number of fairways hit by a winner was a tie.   46.4%, by Woods at Doral...and Sabatini at Riviera.  Does that say anything about the setup and/or layout at Riviera?    

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2007, 08:55:45 AM »
I once only hit 2 fairways and shoot 10 under mt H-cap while playing im 12" rough.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2007, 10:08:40 AM »
Last week at Torrey Pines it was the same, at least through the first 3 rounds - the rough was not deep or thick enough to make a difference and the leaders were not hitting fairways and I'm sure the USGA took note of that in planning the Open.  BTW - are they going to play the regular tour stop at Torrey if they are having the Open?

Jim Nugent

Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2007, 03:26:59 AM »
Baddeley, who won the tournament, ended up hitting 60.71% of all fairways for the week.  

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Baddelly misses 9 fairways out of 14...7 under for the day....
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2007, 09:36:59 AM »
the new breed just hits it as far as they can and then wedges it from the rough.....ARE TREES OUR LAST DEFENSE????

Mike,

How about greens designed and maintained to be very firm and with enough contour that 20 feet short of the hole is infinitely better than 5 feet past it? With that as a starting point you can dial up or down the speed to the clientele so when the TV guys are in town they have to think from start to finish on each hole.

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