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JohnV

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 10:34:23 PM »
Peter,

It isn't that I'm not fond of the start of the back 9 at Ghost, just that I don't think it is quite as good as the rest.

I think the problem is that there are a few too many manufactured mounds, especially along 10 and around 12 and 14 for me.

I was told, by one of the PR partners, that negotiations for the 1998 Open at Olympic almost broke down and that if they had the USGA had decided to call PR, but it didn't happen.

As for PR getting a US Open.  It probably isn't going to happen.

The Senior Open was a shame, but when the moved the Tradition to the Reserve it killed it as the USGA was smart enough to realize that two Senior majors in the same town within a month of each other was crazy.  Instead the got the Women's Am which worked out ok.

I came up with a composite course years ago which supposedly was liked by some at the USGA.  It was long enough then and might even be long enough for today's game, especially if they tweaked a few of the holes.

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2007, 12:00:49 AM »
Thanks to all for the good discussion.

Now that the seniors are going to Crosswater perhaps a new movement will rekindle for other events.

"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Jay Flemma

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2007, 02:48:19 AM »
So lets ask the question then...is Pumpkin Ridge Cupp's best design?  If not, what is?

Prop bet:  Voytek will vote for Liberty National
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 02:49:41 AM by Jay Flemma »

JohnV

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2007, 08:02:37 AM »
So lets ask the question then...is Pumpkin Ridge Cupp's best design?  If not, what is?

Prop bet:  Voytek will vote for Liberty National

I haven't seen Liberty National, so I'd put it to being one of the Pumpkin Ridge courses or Crosswater.  Some prefer Witch Hollow, some prefer Ghost Creek and some prefer Crosswater.  My personal preference is Witch Hollow.

Craig Van Egmond

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Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2007, 09:01:44 AM »

Having only played Cupp's six northwest designed courses, I can only comment on his best work in that region.  Crosswater would be at the top of my list, with Witch Hollow finishing second because of a poor finishing hole.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2007, 10:30:13 AM »
So lets ask the question then...is Pumpkin Ridge Cupp's best design?  If not, what is?

Prop bet:  Voytek will vote for Liberty National

Has anybody played Hawk's Ridge?  I've heard it is very good.
For me it's Witch Hollow first, Crosswater second...

JohnV

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2007, 11:19:58 AM »
Craig,

What is it that makes #18 at Witch Hollow a poor hole in your mind?

Bill_McBride

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Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2007, 02:43:22 PM »
What is it that makes #18 at Witch Hollow a poor hole in your mind?

John, here are my thoughts on #18 from above in this thread:

"The only hole that really felt out of character was the 18th with its two forced carries across wetlands.  I don't recall another forced carry on the golf course, so this came out of nowhere.  It's almost like Bob Cupp looked at the routing, liked it but said, 'We gotta get back to the clubhouse and have to accommodate those wetlands, so this is as good as we are going to get.'"


JohnV

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2007, 02:57:58 PM »
Bill,

The tee shots on 9 and 13 are also forced carries.  9 has to carry a couple of small creeks and a lot of fescue while 13 is over more wetlands.

When you were there, did you go into the men's locker room and look at the different routings that are on display.  There were many options.

I happen to think that 18 is a wonderful hole because it can have such a huge impact on the round.  I personally made every score from 3 to 13 on it.  I saw Earl Anthony make a eagle to win a large sum of money from a guy and I remember a friend of mine who was 2-under coming to the hole walk off with a 76.

The tee shot looks a lot more intimidating that it is (it even looks easier from the back tee which is elevated than from the others).  The fairway is over 40 yards wide.  If you hit it left you get a flatter lie and shorter second, but put the hazard more in play.  If you take it safely right the ball will be above your feet and the second plays longer.  The layup isn't tough for anyone, but then the third shot is long if you want to get on in regulation.

The best part of the hole is that your third shot will either be from the tee :(, from 170 or so yards, inside 100 yards or a putt.

The actual carry on the second shot is only about 40 yards of wetlands, but the layup and the fact that the fairway doesn't start for another 20 yards after the wetlands make feel a lot longer.

The green is nasty and the hollow left of it is no picnic.

I would like them to thin the trees on the right, just short of the green to give more shots.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2007, 03:18:51 PM »

John,

          Well you had a chance to play the 18th WAY more times than I, but I just found the 2 forced carries over wetlands to be awkward. It really seemed out of character with the course, much like the 18th at High Pointe.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2007, 03:20:13 PM »
Bill,

The tee shots on 9 and 13 are also forced carries.  9 has to carry a couple of small creeks and a lot of fescue while 13 is over more wetlands.

When you were there, did you go into the men's locker room and look at the different routings that are on display.  There were many options.

I happen to think that 18 is a wonderful hole because it can have such a huge impact on the round.  I personally made every score from 3 to 13 on it.  I saw Earl Anthony make a eagle to win a large sum of money from a guy and I remember a friend of mine who was 2-under coming to the hole walk off with a 76.

The tee shot looks a lot more intimidating that it is (it even looks easier from the back tee which is elevated than from the others).  The fairway is over 40 yards wide.  If you hit it left you get a flatter lie and shorter second, but put the hazard more in play.  If you take it safely right the ball will be above your feet and the second plays longer.  The layup isn't tough for anyone, but then the third shot is long if you want to get on in regulation.

The best part of the hole is that your third shot will either be from the tee :(, from 170 or so yards, inside 100 yards or a putt.

The actual carry on the second shot is only about 40 yards of wetlands, but the layup and the fact that the fairway doesn't start for another 20 yards after the wetlands make feel a lot longer.

The green is nasty and the hollow left of it is no picnic.

I would like them to thin the trees on the right, just short of the green to give more shots.

It's possible my criticism could be tainted by the fact that I hooked my tee shot into the junk!  :P :P

Funny, I really didn't recall the other two forced carries.  I guess I hit the ball okay off those tees........

JohnV

Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2007, 03:27:31 PM »

It's possible my criticism could be tainted by the fact that I hooked my tee shot into the junk!  :P :P

Funny how that works.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:John VB asks a good Q: what about Pumpkin Ridge?
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2007, 03:30:11 PM »

It's possible my criticism could be tainted by the fact that I hooked my tee shot into the junk!  :P :P

Funny how that works.

No kidding.  

Actually I don't think I said #18 was a BAD hole, just a bit out of character.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 03:34:58 PM by Bill_McBride »

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